“How do we get product managers to value user research?” “How do we get executives to think in an Agile way?” “How do we get UX researchers to prioritize our work?” “How do we get our sales team to stop making promises we can’t deliver?” For the last twelve years, I have heard these questions on a weekly basis. And the answer to all of them is exactly the same: you don’t “get” anyone to do anything. In this talk, product leader and author of Product Management in Practice Matt LeMay shares his experience working across product, UX, marketing, and leadership teams at companies like Google, Audible, Mailchimp, and Spotify. You’ll learn how the path to success in cross-functional product development means embracing ego death and recognizing that you have very little direct control over anyone or anything. No, seriously. About Matt Matt LeMay is an internationally recognized product leader, author, and consultant who has worked with companies like Spotify, Audible, Mailchimp, and Google. He is the author of Agile for Everybody (O’Reilly Media, 2018) and Product Management in Practice (Second Edition O’Reilly Media, 2022), and has helped build and scale product management practices at companies ranging from early-stage startups to Fortune 500 enterprises. Matt is the creator of the One Page / One Hour Pledge, a commitment to minimize busywork and maximize collaboration that has been adopted by over 100 individuals and teams at Amazon, Walmart, CNN, BBVA, and more. Previously, Matt worked as Senior Product Manager at music startup Songza (acquired by Google), and Head of Consumer Product at Bitly. Matt is also a musician, recording engineer, and the author of a book about singer-songwriter Elliott Smith.

1. YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE
TO DO ANYTHING
Matt LeMay / matt@mattlemay.com / @mattlemay
UX Brighton Nov 4 2022

2. Hi! It is great to be here with y’all today.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

3. (Gratuitous fancy slide)
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

4. I do a lot of these talks, and get a lot of
questions.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

5. … and a lot of them are more or less the
same thing.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

6. How do we get product
managers to value user
research?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

7. How do we get user
researchers to prioritize the
work we actually need?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

8. How do we get sales to
stop promising things we
can’t deliver?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

9. How do we get executives
to stop handing us lists of
things to build?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

10. Great news!
All of these questions have exact the same answer….
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

11. YOU DON’T “GET”
ANYONE TO DO
ANYTHING.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

12. Say it with me now….
“GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

13. Say it with me now….
“get” anyone to do anything
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

14. Say it with me now….
“get” anyone to do anything
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

15. YOU. DON’T.
“GET”. ANYONE.
TO. DO.
ANYTHING.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

16. You might be thinking….
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

17. … but really
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

18. “When we attempt to exercise
power or control over
someone else, we cannot
avoid giving that person the
very same power or control
over us.”
- Alan Watts
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

19. @mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

20. We have the power to ask di
ff
erent questions.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

21. How do we get executives
to stop handing us lists of
things to build?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

22. How do we get help
executives to stop handing
us lists of things to build?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

23. How do we get help
executives to stop handing
us lists of things to build
understand the trade-o
ff
s
that will best achieve their
goals?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

24. How do we get help
executives to stop handing
us lists of things to build
understand the trade-o
ff
s
that will best achieve their
goals?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

25. Executives don’t always know exactly what
their goals are to begin with.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

26. If you’re given a list of 10 things to build, try to
understand which of them is most important, and to
whom.
See if you can help rank or prioritize them.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

27. Explaining trade-o
ff
s helps to clarify goals.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

28. The best product people stay in optionality.
Which means they never have to say “yes” or “no”.
Which means they are less likely to be defensive and
ego driven.
Which means they are less likely to give up their
power to people who they can’t “get” to do things.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

29. BONUS: UX folks are often particularly good at
putting people, communities, and ecosystems at
the heart of these decisions.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

30. “Which of these do you think would help our users the
most?”
“Which of these do you think will get us closest to
achieving our vision for a better world?”
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

31. Fun fact: executives are confused, scared, weird
humans just like you are.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

32. Who is one person who you are afraid will sabotage or
undermine your work?
Reach out to them and approach them with curiosity
to better understand their goals.
You might be surprised.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

33. @mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

34. How do we get product
managers to value user
research?
How do we get user
researchers to prioritize the
work we actually need?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

35. For starters, most of what we just discussed about
executives is also true of product managers.
(Though they are de
fi
nitely NOT “mini-CEOs”)
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

36. How do we get product
managers to value user
research?
How do we get user
researchers to prioritize the
work we actually need?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

37. How do we get product
managers to value user
research?
How do we get user
researchers to prioritize the
work we actually need?
How do we work together
to achieve our goals?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

38. Most questions of role clarity are actually best
resolved by goal clarity.
[Football GIF omitted because I’m new to the
UK and don’t want to get myself in trouble]
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

39. “… the prevalent sensation of
oneself as a separate ego
enclosed in a bag of skin is a
hallucination which accords
neither with Western science nor
with the experimental
philosophy-religions of the
East.”
- Alan Watts, cat daddy
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

40. High performing cross-functional teams naturally self-
organise around shared goals.
(Even teams with redundant or ambiguous roles!)
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

41. @mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING
The problem, again, is that many teams don’t actually
know what their goals are, and certainly not at a high
enough altitude to naturally coalesce around them.

42. Speci
fi
city
Altitude
Fluffy mission
statements and the like
Vague user stories Fiddly product-level
KPIs and metrics
What goals are we working towards?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

43. @mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING
*Check out Adam Thomas / @TheHonorableAT for more on “Survival Metrics”!

44. Aligning your team around high-speci
fi
city, high-
altitude goals requires deliberate and thoughtful
facilitation.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

45. How do we get product
managers to facilitate a
conversation about high-
altitude, high-speci
fi
city
goals?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

46. How do we get product
managers help our team to
facilitate a conversation
about understand and
articulate our high-altitude,
high-speci
fi
city goals?
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING
•Ask folks on your team what
they’re working towards and
why.
•Do prioritisation and stack-
ranking exercises as a friendly
thought experiment.
•Invite folks from your team into
discovery and research
sessions.

47. BONUS: UX folks are often really good facilitators!!
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

48. “Facilitation is
undervalued
because it is
femme-coded.”
-Saielle DaSilva /
@intentionaut
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

49. Remember to be patient! These things take time. You
can’t solve everything all at once—and neither could
the people you wish you could “get” to do something.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

50. To summarize.
Saying or thinking that “IF
ONLY SO-AND-SO WOULD
DO SUCH-AND-SUCH”
means we are living in an
ego-driven fantasy and
giving SO-AND-SO more
power than they probably
have in reality.
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

51. Matt LeMay
@mattlemay tw (mostly product stu
ff
)
@mttlmy ig (mostly fashion stu
ff
)
matt@mattlemay.com
@mattlemay | YOU DON’T “GET” ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING