The document introduces the Blueprint of WE process created by Zelle Nelson and Maureen McCarthy to build healthy relationships. They discuss how their own relationship began unexpectedly but with an agreement to prioritize maintaining a good relationship. This led them to create a collaborative process focused on open communication and understanding each partner's needs, especially during difficult times, rather than just addressing conflicts.

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Welcome to the Reboot podcast. Before we start today's episode, I wanted to take a moment and
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"It is in the space between inner and outer world which is also the space between people, the
transitional space that intimate relationships and creativity occur." That quote is from DW
Winnicott. When Jerry and Fred Wilson first came together to form Flatiron Partners in 1996,
they made a partnership agreement that still stands today. It wasn't a legal deal although I'm sure
they made many of those, but rather an agreement on how they would work and be together.
Jerry, coming from a painful previous work experience suggested to Fred, "If I ever do anything
to you that pisses you off, can you just tell me so I'm not trying to figure it out or I'm worried
about it? Because if you don't tell me, then I'll retreat." Fred agreed and their partnership was
extremely effective and 20 years later, their friendship is still strong.
What if your agreements with partners and co-workers were more focused on the characteristics
of how you come together related to one another and work together instead of what happens
when shit hits the fan. Zelle Nelson and Maureen McCarthy are co-founders of the Center for
Collaborative Awareness and our guests for today's conversation. They have created a
collaborative process called the Blueprint of WE which is used to build and sustain healthier, a
more resilient business and personal relationships those that start from a place of hope and

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openness. They join Jerry to share how they came together, how the process works and how this
can impact your relationships and your organization. Enjoy the conversation.
Jerry Colonna: Good morning guys, thanks so much for joining us and today we have this very
special edition of the Reboot podcast where we are going to be diving deep on the issue
of co-founder conflict. And with me today, we have, if you can introduce yourselves
that would be great.
Zelle Nelson: I'm Zelle Nelson.
Maureen McCarthy: And I'm Maureen McCarthy and we are the co-founders of the Center for
and we created a collaboration process called the Blueprint of WE.
Jerry: That's great, thank you so much for that and we at Reboot are really looking at the
question of the relationship between co-founders and not even just co-founders but
really colleagues in the office. You know, there's a line that I use which is that what I'm
really about, whether it was originally in my coaching practice or now with my
colleagues and friends at Reboot, what we are really about is trying to induce kind of a
revolution in the corporate world which is to reduce the violence. And I use that term
with respecting the physical violence that exists in the world while simultaneously
honoring the kind of violence that gets perpetrated on people when their sense of self is
diminished in the office, in the workplace. And what I – and so we talk about building
non-violent workplaces and one of the biggest sources of tension and challenge are
those interpersonal relationships in the office. I often joke and I quote very poorly,
Jean-Paul Sartre, who said that hell is other people and, you know, when I first came
across the Blueprint of WE, which was through the work I have done through BayNVC
or Bay Non-violent Communications and specifically the brilliant work of Mickey
Cashton, I immediately began thinking about ways that this might be applied to the
kinds of relationships that we as coaches run into. And so, I thought it would be good if
we could take a few moments to really sort of understand what the blueprint is all about
and my first question is, how did you guys hit upon this as a structure, as a model?
Maureen: Yeah, it was actually kind of by chance; it was almost 17 years ago now, Zelle and I
met and started first knowing each other in a personal relationship and started dating
and it happened to be the year I have a very rare, fatal, lung disease and I was told that
year that that's as long as people live, you know, you will die by this year. So when I
met him, there was no expectation of some long-term future and the picket fence and
the house and all the kinds of things that you are supposed to have in a relationship.
Zelle had just come out of a relationship –
Zelle: I had been in love with this woman who moved back to Sweden and the relationship ended
and I was in a not-so-great place –
Maureen: And he even said to me on our second date, 'Hey, if she ever comes knocking on the
door, just know that I'm out of here' which was fine.

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Jerry: What an amazing start.
Maureen: Which was fine at the time because I said, we were in a restaurant and I said, 'Is she
here tonight?' And he said, 'No, she's in Sweden.' And I said, 'Well, I'm going to be
dead before she comes knocking on the door so, I hope she comes back to you. Like
that would be incredibly – like, good luck with that. I think that's cool.'
Zelle: That has absolutely changed, I am so much more like connected and in love than I have
ever been –
Maureen: Yeah, it's so true.
Zelle: – and yet, at the time, we were – neither of us were expecting this relationship to be
anything more than what we were doing in this moment, right now.
Maureen: We weren't measuring up against forever which I think we do in both business and
personal relationships. We measure someone up against forever, we decide whether
they think they can measure up for the rest of our lives and then we start – our mind
starts slowly playing around with the things that we think work and the things we need
to change and what doesn't work about them. And we engage a whole set of neural
pathways around – it's a subconscious dance of protecting ourselves, of safety, of like
how can I be in a relationship with this person and protect myself from the things that I
don't think work for me? And it's kind of a crazy start when you think about it. Even in
a business situation, whether it's an employee manual or a contract, we start all of our
relationships with this premise that we have to protect ourselves. So even when I give
you the employee manual and say, 'It's great that you are at the company, we are so
happy that you are here' and sign this thing because we want to protect ourselves from
you, it becomes a different foundation that we build a relationship on. So when Zelle
and I first got together and had this odd, sort of, let's just choose today, about two
months into our relationship, we had a great conversation about how we wanted – our
ultimate goal, if it wasn't the normal way of doing things, was to be in a good place
with each other the rest of our lives. That was the goal. Whatever – we called the
relationship container was, this intimate relationship, whether that remained or not, our
ultimate goal was to be in this good place. And I went home that night and I said, okay,
I would have said that about just about anybody I have ever been in business with or
been in a relationship. Like why doesn't that work sometimes? And I decided that if we
built a different foundation and because we've been working, you know, looking at the
collaboration like especially like the neuro-science of collaboration, we really
understood that these relationships, they go through so many different paths of
possibilities and if we could just build a foundation that was really strong at the start,
maybe you don't have to fix what's broken down the line. Because I have this lung
disease, I actually only have 10% lung capacity left. I'm supposed to be on oxygen 24
hours a day, my doctors say that there's no reason why I'm still alive. It's now 17 years
past, I've lived longer than anyone else with this disease. So, if that's the case, how do I
keep living? They can't scientifically explain it and I think it's because through the
blueprint, I have built totally different foundations in my life. Our kids did their first

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blueprint – we did it as a family when they were four and six years old. We do it with
all of our clients, all of our employees, suppliers, anyone that we are in a relationship
with, we are building a different foundation through this collaboration process. It
doesn't take a lot of time but it starts out at such a – like a strong adaptive resilient place
that no matter what the dance is between people, you are always coming back, you have
this document to actually get you back to that good place.
Zelle: I like the fact that you are having these conversations that matter on a couple of different
levels around why do I want to be in this, how are we going to interact with each other,
what does it look like, what does it look like on my bad day when I'm not going to be
able to function well –
Maureen: And not only what I look like on my worst day, here's what I need in the moment; I'm
going to tell you this now that I'm not gonna be able to ask for in fact, my behavior is
going to be the complete opposite of what I really needing in that moment. But if we
wrote this down ahead of time, if I tell you during a calm moment when I am creating
this document with you, then you actually have a chance to help pull me out of
whatever I'm going into because I've told you ahead of time what the keys are.
Zelle: And then we are also talking about expectations, like how are we going to get done what
we want to get done together.
Maureen: What are we – how are we going to measure it, by what time, at what cost, like all of
the specifics that often traditional legal contracts cover, the blueprint covers as well. In
fact there's a lot of attorneys and mediators around the world that are using it because it
has all of the things that a traditional contract can cover but there's also the relationship
and who the people are that are in the relationship that's part of this whole document.
Jerry: I think that two things come to mind as I hear this story. The first is the realization that – I
think you are absolutely right that when we enter into a relationship, whether it's
romantic or business partnership or even as we hire an employee, and this is going to
sound very Buddhist of me so forgive me 'cuz everything I do sounds either Buddhist
or Brooklyn. I'll usually either curse or quote the Buddha. But it made me realize that
not only is it do we enter this relationship from a foundation of fear, but we enter that
relationship with the expectation of it ending and trying to protect ourselves from the
pain of it ending. And so, if you think about even a traditional legal contract, 90% of
the content of that contract is about what happens when shit happens. Right?
Maureen: Yeah.
Zelle: Exactly.
Jerry: As opposed to saying, 'How do we craft a relationship so that I am not entering this
dialogue from a place of fear but entering from a place of hope and not hope that is
delusional?'

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Maureen: Yeah, it's not crossing your fingers and hoping, it's actually what we call 'custom
designing' our – we often call the blueprint, 'Mindfulness meditation for relationships'.
How do I do mindfulness in an active form in the very relationships that are most key to
my work and to my life? It changes everything.
Jerry: That's beautiful. The other thing it reminds me of is, I often – when I start working with a
client, I often talk to them about one of my first, really successful partnerships and that
is with a deep friend named Fred Wilson who is a very famous venture capitalist. What
happened was, in 1996, I left one firm, he left another firm and we joined together and
I'll never forget one of the most conscious conversations that we ever had which came
from a place of pain and long before I had any non-violent communications training or
was even aware of mindful creation of relationships. It went something like this: I had
had such a painful experience in my previous partnership that I said something like,
'Hey listen, can we make a deal? And the deal goes like this; if I ever do anything that
pisses you off, could you just promise to tell me so that I'm not worrying and not trying
to figure out what's going on? Because when I think you are angry with me, I will
retreat.' And we made this deal and to this day, 20 years later, we are still friends and
we have had many disagreements and we've never had an argument.
Maureen: Yeah, that's exactly – that's a perfect explanation of [Inaudible 0:15:07]
Zelle: And really paying attention to when those, even the little things are up because if we can
catch it early, we can really get the message of what it's trying to tell us. Like there's
something in that space when I'm feeling stressed or tension or pain, I'm looking for
something. You understand that.
Maureen: We call it stress for clarity. Stress is not a bad thing, it's a messenger; so if I can stop
for a moment and figure out what the message it is trying to give me, one of the
statistics I love most about the brain is that the difference between our subconscious
and conscious mind, our conscious mind processes information at 2000 bits per second
and subconscious mind processes information at 11 million bits per second. I think my
conscious mind is running my life, all the things I say, do and think about, I'm crazy.
So, how do I pay attention – and they say though, that everything in the subconscious
mind is changeable, it's re-writable but you can only do it if you can get it from the
subconscious which means, I'm not even aware of it, to the working state of the
conscious mind. And the only way for me to really do that and change some of those
automatic habit loops and the wiring of the stories that I believe that are stressful is if I
pay attention to what pains me with stress. If he does something, if Zelle does
something that really drives me nuts, cool, it's pointing to something in my
subconscious that I've got a painful story around and I now have an experience to get
me to bring that up, make a change to the way I am thinking about it because I'm going
to use the blueprint to come back. It's also a great third party mediator tool so you can
come back and use it to get back to the place including using a tool like non-violent
communication; how do you take the tools you are already using and put them into the
document so you are really making use of them. But it has this ability to say, stress is
not my enemy. I don't need to – I know, for my body, I do not stress 24 hours a day. I

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do not live in that kind of a world any more. I used to but I have leant now to clear
things out. It's the notion that if I went on a hike for five miles, and in mile one, I get a
stick in my shoe, I'm not gonna walk for five miles with a stick in my shoe. I'm gonna
stop and take it out. That's what I do with stress; I stop, I take a look at it, I use the
blueprint to have a conversation with the other person or people, we figure out what the
clarity is that we are looking for so that I can re-write this habit loop in my
subconscious mind to something that feels more peaceful and something that gives me
resilience and life.
Zelle: When we take that clarity and we build on it, like what is it that was calling out to us that
we either want more of? Was it more connection, is it more responsibility, like, what
are the pieces that will help us in our relationship and in our business or whatever we
are doing together?
Jerry: There seems to be a basic first step that's really a necessary component to this and what it
reminds me of is a phrase that we often use at Reboot which is the notion of radical
self-enquiry. You know, the formula that we work with is that practical skills
development plus radical self-enquiry plus peer support equals enhanced leadership and
greater resiliency.
Maureen: It's one of reasons there's actually different types of blueprints. There is also a
'Blueprint of ME' which is the relationship you have between you and that chatterbox in
your head that can either totally inspire you or spiral you down. That's the roommate
you have 24/7, it never moves out. That relationship is there every day, it's gonna be,
you can go on a vacation, it's still gonna come with you. So, how do you build that
relationship first and say, 'This inner relationship I have between me and myself, me
and my mind, has to be a healthy one, let me do that one first' was actually one of the
interesting things often when we are working with an executive team, we'll have them
all do the 'Blueprint of ME' first. Let me get right with that relationship before they do
the team document of the Blueprint of WE and then it starts feeding into it. I start
looking at that you know, radical self-enquiry, who am I, what do I want to bring to
this, what do I know, what am I good at in this dance of leader and follower where you
can be interchangeable in any given moment. This is not about I am a leader, you're a
follower every day. This is – this world today is moment by moment changing that. So
how do I know what dances do I know, when should I lead, when should I follow?
When I start looking inside for that knowledge and that strength and then I share it in
my Blueprint of WE, it's really powerful because it's what we call 'Collaborative
awareness'. We are all very familiar with self-awareness, you know, that's something
for the last 50 years is really progressed in our culture but now we are really crying out
for collaborative awareness because you can take a group of really brilliant self-aware
people to do something, why does it fall apart? Why is there all the stress? We haven't
learnt that collaborative awareness space partially because we don't know how to use
stress for clarity. We use stress to pull us back, to make us think we have to protect
ourselves, the fear gets involved – and I loved how you talked about, you know,
violence in the workplace because the violence in the workplace isn't between other
people and myself. It's between me and myself. Sometimes I'm the hardest person on

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myself than anyone else. So how do I get that voice to calm down, how do I change my
subconscious autopilot from these thoughts that are very stressful and create something
calmer? Part of the way I do that is not just me looking into me but in collaborative
awareness space, I'm having other people help me look into me. I know so much about
myself not only because Zelle and I are married, but because we are co-founders of an
organization. There's whole sides of me that if we never worked together, I never would
have known about myself specifically because he saw that he helped bring them out or
he noticed something that someone else might not have.
Zelle: It is [Inaudible 0:21:06] it's really fascinating; she knows I'm upset before I do.
Maureen: We both do, yeah.
Zelle: It's really helpful to have someone say, hey wait a minute, why not take a look and to be
able to take that step back and to be able to figure out what's going on and then have a
conversation about what do we want to create and what's coming up because really, it's
amazing.
Jerry: You know, I think that, you know, if we are committed to doing our inner work whether
it's the Blueprint of ME, or the radical self-inquiry, or using those tools and by the way,
one of the questions I like to throw in there is, what kind of adult do I want to be
because often times, I'm not. But I had this aspirational view of what I'm going to be
when I'm a man, you know, when I grow up. If we do that, what I have found is that we
then create the space for the other to be able to come to us and say, 'Hey listen, you
have a smudge of dirt on your nose and you don’t even know it. You have a little piece
of spinach on your teeth' and it's very non-judgmental. It's like, 'Hey, I notice that there
is a furrowed brow going on.
Maureen: Right.
Jerry: Are you inquisitive, are you curious, are you stressed and by allowing that kind of
spaciousness, then what happens in the room and I've seen this now between co-
founders, what happens if two co-founders who often times start to replicate our family
of origin situations, someone's playing mommy, someone's playing daddy, often times
they flip back and forth then everybody else in the room, their inner system gets to calm
down because those two parental figures are starting to communicate with each other
like adults.
Maureen: Yeah, absolutely.
Jerry: And then the system starts to calm down and then I think that creates a space for
collaboration, true collaboration, which is, it's okay if I tell you, 'Zelle, you got a
smudge of dirt on your nose.' I'm not attacking you.
Maureen: I don’t mind that I have a smudge of dirt on my nose, I'm okay with that. It doesn't
mean that everything someone says to me about me is going to land us, 'Yeah, you're

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absolutely right.' But if I take it in with any sort of stress, that's where I know there's a
message for clarity there, somewhere.
Jerry: Yeah.
Zelle: And I love the space where you're talking about, hey there's that smudge on my nose and
having a conversation ahead of time when we are in a calm space around how I want to
have that interaction with you; what are my conversations and what are my boundaries
around how I want to talk to when you notice that smudge. And I might, you know,
encourage a certain way for you to connect with me that can really help to move, keep
us in that calm, connected space where we have that curiosity conversation. It's 'What's
going on?' 'What's happening?' versus, 'What's wrong with you?'
Maureen: Yeah, there is a – that curiosity also allows space for experiments because I might say
to you, so how would you like me to tell you, you know, there's a smudge on your
nose? And you might say, I don’t know, I have no idea. So we might have a
conversation like well, maybe this, this, this, or this. All right, let's write that in our
blueprint and let's try that. Let's do an experiment for the next two weeks; if something
comes up, I'm gonna try one of these ways and then we have – the other part of the
blueprint is what we call 'Look-back learning'. It's sort of like post-game analysis. If I
tell you one of those ways, and you just like, 'That does not work at all', then a couple
of days later we look back and I say, 'Okay, so I told you you had a smudge on your
nose, that did not land well the way I said it. How could I have done it better?' Like,
should we try one of the other ways? Like how could it look or feel – or if you just need
to have your moment of, you know, intensity, but you took it in and we are going to
have a big conversation. Like, it's just really taking a look at what's – how it's working
and how we can be curious also using experiments.
Jerry: I love this. You know, one of the other premises that I've been working with lately and
that we really take to heart at Reboot is, not only is there an opportunity to reduce the
inherent violence that can occur and the violence to the self and the existential threat,
not only is it an opportunity to, sort of, for that self-exploration and then to sort of bring
a whole authentic self to that experience. But as I hear the two of you describe this
process from your 17 years of personal experience but also watching clients and
colleagues to through this, it connects me back to this other wish that I think is implicit
in so much that is there and that is that the promise of work not as this source of
drudgery, but as an opportunity for self-actualization. You mean, I don't just go to work
to earn a living? I go to work to grow and become a better human? What a radical
concept that is.
Maureen: And that that doesn't have to be hard work.
Jerry: Yes.
Maureen: Relationships have to be hard work or it's just one of the things that comes along with
it. I couldn't disagree more.

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Zelle: It's a lot of fun and when I am allowing the best version of you to show up and you want
the best version of me to show up, that space is something where we build what we
want to create and we unleash our passion because as entrepreneurs, as founders of
organizations and places like that, we want to bring something into the world, whatever
it might be, to make something, you know, creative, something that we want to give
and when I can invite the best versions of all the people around me to be a part of that
process, that is life-giving and I want to be a part of that.
Jerry: That reminds me of something my friend and teacher and mentor, Parker Palmer writes
about. Parker talks about in his book, 'A Hidden Wholeness', he talks about the fact that
what we are seeking from work is really three things: we're seeking the ability to pay
our bills, we're seeking the ability to express our soul and we're seeking community.
And I think that this collaborative process that you've developed is one of the ways in
which that soul gets to come out and play in a safe way and we then form a community.
And so then work is no longer that dreadful obligation but it becomes a place for play,
of exploration.
Maureen: Yeah, truly. One of the other types of blueprints that we love using with our clients is
called the 'One-page introduction blueprint'. So an organization or even an individual,
you create a one-page version of Blueprint of WE from your perspective. So, your
organization, say if Reboot were to have a one page introduction, that piece of paper or
electronically goes out to every person you touch, whether it's a new client or it's a
supplier or whomever might be. The way you start every conversation is with this one-
page introduction which says, it's the same five components that are in every blueprint
which is the story of us, interaction styles and warning signs, expectations, questions
for peace and possibility and short and long term agreements. So, same five things but
it's really condensed to be this over-arching umbrella look at the organization and the
way we use that in the contracting process is if that goes out to a new client, if they
decide – if we decide we are going to work together, then we invite them to take 15-20
minutes, write their half of the same five components, then we merge that into one
document and that becomes our legal contract in essence. We even had attorneys for
major corporations say to people like, we are not going to do a traditional legal contract
anymore because this blueprint has so much more that it takes into consideration. I
mean, this even happened with one of our clients who uses a one-page introduction in
the UK, they were working – one of their clients is the largest insurance agency in the
United Kingdom and it was the attorney for the insurance agency that told HR, "We are
not putting a penalty clause in this contract because it will void the spirit of the
contract." So, there is something that happens when you start those conversations from
moment one with somebody and say, 'This is a different way of being together in
business and it's going to bring all of us to better work. We are getting more creative' –
we even look at the difference from the evolutionary perspective of the brain between
the safety brain and the connected brain. Our full culture, focuses on us developing
safety brain mechanisms. I love my safety brain, I hope it comes on when I need it in a
dark alley but I don't want that to be my go-to thing that I operate on every day. I now
have a mind that operates on joy; like joy is my autopilot. That comes up before stress

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does and I can say that with all of my clients too because I start these conversations and
relationships from a very different perspective and they end up showing up in a very
different way as well.
Jerry: I appreciate that. You know, so many of our clients are young startups and in so many
instances, this is their – our clients, it's their first job; let alone their first leadership
position and one of the other sources of tremendous tension in a relationship is actually
the relationships that they have with their investors. And as you can imagine, it's a
fraught relationship because power is there and I have this, never-before-revealed secret
wish and that is, that a whole generation of venture capitalists who are providing the
means for people to realize their vision of changing the world, would start to
incorporate this kind of thinking into the documents that go along with the investments.
Maureen: Absolutely.
Jerry: Wouldn't that be grand?
Maureen: Yeah, it's really true.
Zelle: Definitely.
Jerry: And so instead of having a document that says, 'Let's plan for the worst, let's presume that
you are going to screw up as the CEO and you're going to have to get fired and I'm
going to have to step in' what if we had a document that said, 'Let's use the investment
process to grow as individuals regardless of whether or not the company succeeds'; that
would be so fun. Does that sound like something that would be possible?
Maureen: I could see it wholeheartedly.
Zelle: Yes, definitely.
Maureen: And that's the thing; it's not that work-intensive to create that. It's just the – people
don't know they have another option.
Jerry: That's right.
Maureen: Once you start knowing you have another option, like you'd much rather take that
road.
Jerry: Yeah, so some day, a couple of friends of mine and I are hoping to do a boot camp for
investors to talk about the process of being a board member and how to make that more
collaborative and so, you may be hearing from me again.
Maureen: There's definitely a lot of board's directors that are using it so –
Jerry: Yeah.

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Maureen: – it works really well in that situation.
Zelle: Yeah, definitely.
Jerry: Well, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. This has been a great conversation
and I know that the folks who listen to the podcast are going to be excited about this.
We will have links and pointers to the information and I really want to encourage
people to reach out to you guys and your facilitators and see if there's additional ways
that we can sort of bring this work back into this small, little microcosm of business
that Reboot works so well with.
Maureen: I want to thank you just for the work you are doing in the world.
Zelle: Yes, absolutely Jerry.
Maureen: I appreciate it immensely. Thank you.
Jerry: Well, thank you, it – you know, many years ago, one of my teachers Ani Pema Chödrön
said to me that my karma is to sort of combine the business pragmatism with this kind
of weird spirituality and I love it when I can manage to bring those two worlds together.
It just makes me happy. Thank you guys, it's really, really a pleasure.
Zelle: Great thank you.
Maureen: Thanks.
Jerry: Take care.
So that's it for our conversation today. You know, a lot was covered in this episode from links, to
books, to quotes, to images. So, we went ahead and compiled all that and put it on our site at
Reboot.io/podcast. If you would like to be a guest on the show, you can find out about that on
our site as well. I'm really grateful that you took the time to listen. If you enjoyed the show and
you want to get all the latest episodes as we release them, head over to iTunes and subscribe and
while you're there, it would be great if you could leave us a review letting us know how the show
affected you. So, thank you again for listening and I really look forward to future conversations
together.
[Singing]
"How long till my soul gets it right?
Did any human being ever reach that kind of light?
I call on the resting soul of Galileo,
King of night-vision, King of insight."

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[End of audio 0:35:26]
[End of transcript]