- The document discusses separating product and engineering teams into different departments and the typical structure of software engineering organizations. - It notes one of the earliest records of separating product and engineering dates back to 2630-2611 BC in ancient Egypt. - The author proposes combining product and engineering teams instead of separating them, arguing this would avoid issues like different KPIs and priorities between teams, silos between areas, and a supplier/customer relationship between product and engineering. - Benefits of combined teams mentioned include maximizing intrinsic motivation, keeping a startup mindset, optimizing for speed over cost, and ensuring consistency across teams. Potential downsides include increased costs initially and challenges ensuring consistency.

1. When Productmeets Engineering
11thMay 2019– Porto, Portugal

2. When Engineering meets Product
11thMay 2019– Porto, Portugal

3. Hi there!I’m Pedro!
EngineeringDirector@
Impact-drivenperson
Passionateabout People,Technology,and Products
Agile,Leanand DevOpsaficionado
10+years of experiencerunning engineeringteams

4. And afew years ago Iwondered!
Why is thisthetypicalstructureofSoftwareEngineeringorganizations?

5. CEO
VPProduct
Product Director
Product Manager
Product Manager
AssociateProduct
Manager
Product Director
…
… VPEngineering
Engineering
Director
Engineering
Manager
EngineeringTeam
EngineeringTeam
Engineering
Manager
…
Engineering
Director
...

6. 2630 BC–2611BC
Thedateofoneofthefirstrecords ofan “organization”thatseparatedProduct from
Engineering
Source: http://www.timelineindex.com/content/view/1178

7. Source: https://www.trainingjournal.com/articles/feature/leadership-lessons-pharaohs

8. Source: https://www.trainingjournal.com/articles/feature/leadership-lessons-pharaohs

9. Source: https://www.trainingjournal.com/articles/feature/leadership-lessons-pharaohs

10. Source: https://www.trainingjournal.com/articles/feature/leadership-lessons-pharaohs

11. Source: https://www.trainingjournal.com/articles/feature/leadership-lessons-pharaohs

12. Source: https://www.trainingjournal.com/articles/feature/leadership-lessons-pharaohs

13. Morerecently
A fewmore examplesofseparatedareas

14. Requirements
Design
Implementation
Testing
Maintenance

15. I want change I want stability
DEV OPS

16. Don’t split your valuechain!

17. SoI had acrazyidea!
Whatif… Product and Engineeringwouldbecombinedand notseparatedin different
areas /departmentsofan organization?

18. Engineeringwithout Product
Thefollowing,130characters,one liner,C program, showscurrent timeusingtext-art:
main(_){_^448&&main(-~_);putchar(--_%64?32|-~7[__TIME__-_/8%8][">'txiZ^(~z?"-48]>>";;;====~$::199"[_*2&8|_/64]/(_&2?1:8)%8&1:10);}
Source: http://www.ioccc.org/years.html#2006

19. Engineeringwithout Product
!!!!!! !!!!!! !!!!!! !!!!!! !!!! !!!!!!
!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!
!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!
!!!! !!!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!!! !! !!
!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!
!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!
!!!! !!!!!! !!!!!! !!!!!! !!!!!! !!!!!!
Source: http://www.ioccc.org/years.html#2006

20. Product without Engineering
Thefollowingwatchwas shipped19.5milliontimesin 2018
Source: https://www.phonearena.com/news/Apple-Watch-Series-4-sales-report_id109181

21. Product without Engineering
Source: https://www.phonearena.com/news/Apple-Watch-Series-4-sales-report_id109181

22. Sonow that (hopefully)you areconvincedand agreeing
with me
How would Isee an SoftwareEngineeringorganization'sstructure?

23. CEO
VPAcquisition
Product Engineering
Director
Product Engineering
Manager
ProductEngineering
Team
…
…
…
VPRetention VPMonetization
Product Engineering
Director
Product Engineering
Manager
Product Engineering
Team
Product Engineering
Team
Product Engineering
Manager
…
Product Engineering
Director
...
VPPlatform

24. And you ask: WIIFM?

25. And you ask: What’s in itfor me?
Why should I care?

26. Avoidsmultiple sources ofOKRs/KPIs
Engineering
Team
...
Engineering
Product
CEO >> VPProduct vs VPEngineeringvs VP Customer Services

27. By havingstraight forward OKRs/KPIs
CEO >> VPs>> Directors >>Managers>>Teams
IncreaseARRby X%
AcquireP% of logos
Delivercustomercommitment
ABC
Increase CSAT by Y%
Retain T% of logos
Launch new feature XPTO
AchieveZ% ofuptime
…
Moveinfrastructure to self-healing
platform
CEO
Acquisition
Product Engineering
Team
Retention
Product Engineering
Team
Platform
Product Engineering
Team

28. By havingstraight forward OKRs/KPIs
CEO >> VPs>> Directors >>Managers>>Teams>>Individual
IncreaseARRby X%
AcquireP% of logos
Delivercustomercommitment
ABC
Increase CSAT by Y%
Retain T% of logos
Launch new feature XPTO
AchieveZ% ofuptime
…
Moveinfrastructure to self-healing
platform
CEO
Acquisition
Product Engineering
Team
Retention
Product Engineering
Team
Platform
Product Engineering
Team

29. Avoidsteam “schizophrenia“
Linereportingteams<> Deliveryteams

30. By havinga single teamto belongto
Linereportingteams== Deliveryteams

31. Avoids“exclusive”meetings
“Product” Meetingswhere“Engineering”isn’t involved andvice versa

32. By havingmeaningfulmeetings
Teammeetingswithall therelevantpeopleattending

33. AvoidsDeliveryownership “dispute”
Is Product theowner ofDelivery?Is itEngineering?
Why?
How?When?

34. By havinga single head
Teamresponsiblefor theDelivery and themanageraccountableforit
Why?
How?
When?

35. And lastbut not least… avoidsthe Supplier/ Customer
betweenareas

36. By havingtrue collaboration

37. And you say: I likeit! Tellme More!

38. Maximizesintrinsic motivation
Autonomy
Mastery
Purpose

39. Makes“Us” vs “They”doneright
Closes the gapbetweendependentareas
Minimizessilos
“Us”wouldbean entire autonomousarea
“They” wouldbethe org’s competition

40. Keepsa startup mindset
Extremeownership
Reduceddependencies
Highfocus on thecustomer

41. Optimizes for speed(andnot cost)
Market-orientedteamsvs Functionalorientedteams
Thanks to: Gene Kim, Jez Humble, Patrick Debois, and John Willis (The DevOps Handbook authors)

42. And now you say: Sure…but what are thedowns of this?

43. I saidit wasn’t optimizedfor cost…
Soit will“cost” you moreforsure... Atleastat firstsight

44. And it will not beeasy to assure consistency cross-areas
I’mtalkingabout practices,processes, procedures, etc.

45. Did I forget to mentionthat transitionsaren’t evereasy?
Weare hardwiredtoresist change– it'snatural

46. But all in all
Thereare already some(successful)companiesadoptingthis:the ARMorganizationalmodel

47. Soif you would only rememberone slide
TL;DR:Stopcreating teamsaround roles or systemsand createthemaround the company’s
strategy

48. And likeMichaelJordan oncesaid
“Talentwinsgames,butteamworkandintelligencewinschampionships.”

49. Thanks!
11thMay 2019– Porto, Portugal