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OBJECTIVES ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
CHECKING FOR SPARK ,[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-1   A spark tester looks like a regular spark plug with an alligator clip attached to the shell. This tester has a specified gap that requires at least 25,000 volts (25 kV) to fire.
Figure 11-2   A close-up showing the recessed center electrode on a spark tester.  It is recessed 3/8 in. into the shell and the spark must then jump another 3/8 in. to the shell for a total gap of 3/4 in.
IGNITION COIL TESTING USING AN OHMMETER ,[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-3   Checking an ignition coil using a multimeter set to read ohms. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
PICKUP COIL TESTING ,[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued) 150 - 900 (orange and black leads) Chrysler Brand 400 - 100 (orange and purple leads) Ford 500 - 1500 (white and green leads) General Motors Pickup Coil Resistance (Ohms) Manufacturer
[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-4   Measuring the resistance of an HEI pickup coil using a digital multimeter set to the ohms position.  The reading on the face of the meter is 0.796 kΩ or 796 ohms in the middle of the 500- to 1,500-ohm specifications.
CURRENT RAMPING IGNITION COILS ,[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-5   A waveform showing the primary current flow through the primary windings of an ignition coil.
Figure 11-6   Schematic of a typical distributorless ignition system showing the location for the power feed and grounds. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
Figure 11-7   Connect the scopes current clamp around the feed wire for the primary side of the coil(s). Start the engine and view the current flow waveform. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
Observed Current Ramp Times (Continued)
Figure 11-8   An example of a good coil current flow waveform pattern.  Note the regular shape of the rise time and slope. Duration of the waveform may change as the module adjusts the dwell. The dwell is usually increased as the engine speed is increased. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
Figure 11-9   (a) A waveform pattern showing an open in the coil primary.  (b) A shorted coil pattern waveform. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)  A
Figure 11-9   (a) A waveform pattern showing an open in the coil primary.  (b) A shorted coil pattern waveform. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)  B
CHECKING PICKUP COILS ,[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-10   A typical pickup coil showing how the waveform is created as the timer core rotates inside the pole piece.
Figure 11-11   (a) A voltage waveform of a pickup coil at low engine speed.  (b) A current waveform of the current through the primary windings of the ignition coil at low engine speed. (c) A voltage waveform of a pickup coil at high speed. (d) A current waveform through the primary winding of the ignition coil at high engine speed.
TESTING MAGNETIC SENSORS ,[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-12   An AC voltage is produced by a magnetic sensor. Most sensors should produce at least 0.1 volt AC while the engine is cranking if the pickup wheel has many teeth. If the pickup wheel has only a few teeth, you may need to switch the meter to read DC volts and watch the display for a jump in voltage as the teeth pass the magnetic sensor. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
TESTING HALL-EFFECT SENSORS ,[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-13   (a) The connection required to test a Hall-effect sensor.  (b) A typical waveform from a Hall-effect sensor. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)  A
Figure 11-13   (a) The connection required to test a Hall-effect sensor.  (b) A typical waveform from a Hall-effect sensor. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)  B
TESTING OPTICAL SENSORS ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-14   (a) The low-resolution signal has the same number of pulses as the engine has cylinders. (b) A dual-trace pattern showing both the low-resolution signal and the high-resolution signals that usually represent 1 degree of rotation. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
CHECKING FOR SPARK ,[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-15   A track inside an ignition coil is not a short, but rather a low-resistance path or hole that has been burned through from the secondary wiring to the steel core.
DISTRIBUTOR INDEXING ,[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-16   The relationship between the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor and the camshaft position (CMP) sensor is affected by wear in the timing gear and/or chain.
Figure 11-17   A scan tool displays the cam retard on a Chevrolet V-6. The cam retard value should be ± 2 degrees .
Figure 11-18   A worn distributor drive gear can be the cause of an out-of-specification camshaft position (CMP) signal.
IGNITION SYSTEM DIAGNOSIS USING VISUAL INSPECTION ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-19   Keys used in a vehicle that had an ignition switch intermittent problem.
TESTING FOR POOR PERFORMANCE ,[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-22   Using a vacuum hose and a grounded test light to ground one cylinder at a time on a DIS. This works on all types of ignition systems and provides a method for grounding out one cylinder at a time without fear of damaging any component.
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-20   A length of vacuum hose being used for a coil wire. The vacuum hose is conductive because of the carbon content of the rubber in the hose. This hose measures only 1,000 ohms and was 1 foot long, which is lower resistance than most spark plug wires. Notice the spark from the hose’s surface to the tip of a grounded screwdriver.
Figure 11-21   A distributorless ignition system (DIS) can be checked by unplugging both spark plug wires from one ignition coil and starting the engine. The spark should be able to jump the 1-in. (25-mm) distance between the terminals of the coil. No damage to the coil (or module) results because a spark occurs and does not find ground elsewhere.
TESTING FOR A NO START CONDITION ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object]
FIRING ORDER ,[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-23   The firing order is cast or stamped on the intake manifold on most engines that have a distributor ignition.
DISTRIBUTOR CAP AND ROTOR INSPECTION ,[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-24   Note where the high-voltage spark jumped through the plastic rotor to arc into the distributor shaft. Always check for a defective spark plug(s) when a defective distributor cap or rotor is discovered. If a spark cannot jump to a spark plug, it tries to find a ground path wherever it can.
Figure 11-25   This distributor cap should be replaced because of the worn inserts and excessive dusting inside the cap.
Figure 11-26   This rotor had arced through to the distributor shaft. The engine would not run above an idle speed and the spark from the coil could easily fire a spark tester.
Figure 11-27   Carbon track in a distributor cap. These faults are sometimes difficult to spot and can cause intermittent engine missing. The usual cause of a tracked distributor cap (or coil, if it is a distributorless ignition) is a defective (open) spark plug wire.
Figure 11-28   Some rotors are retained by a screw, so look before you pry.
SPARK PLUG WIRE INSPECTION ,[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-29   With careful visual inspection, the technician discovered this defective spark plug wire.
Figure 11-30   Measuring the resistance of a spark plug wire with a multimeter set to the ohms position. The reading of 16.03 kΩ (16,030 ohms) is okay because the wire is about 2-ft. long. Maximum allowable resistance for a spark plug wire this long would be 20kΩ (20,000 ohms).
Spark Plug Wire Pliers Are a Good Investment ,[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-31   Spark plug wire boot pliers are a handy addition to any tool box.
Figure 11-32   Always take the time to install spark plug wires back into the original holding brackets (wiring combs).
SPARK PLUG SERVICE ,[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-33   When removing spark plugs, it is wise to arrange them so that they can be compared and any problem can be identified with a particular cylinder.
Figure 11-34   A spark plug thread chaser is a low-cost tool that hopefully will not be used often, but is necessary to clean the threads before new spark plugs are installed.
Figure 11-35   Since 1991, General Motors engines have been equipped with slightly (1/8 in. or 3 mm) longer spark plugs. This requires that a longer spark plug socket should be used to prevent the possibility of cracking a spark plug during installation. The longer socket is shown next to a normal 5/8-in. spark plug socket.
Figure 11-36   An extended-reach spark plug that shows normal wear. The color and condition indicate that the cylinder is operating correctly.
Figure 11-37   Spark plug removed from an engine after a 500-mile race. Note the clipped side (ground) electrode. The electrode design and narrow (0.025 in.) gap are used to ensure that a spark occurs during extremely high engine speed operation. The color and condition of the spark plug indicate that near-perfect combustion has been occurring.
Figure 11-38   Typical worn spark plug. Notice the rounded center electrode. The deposits indicate a possible oil usage problem.
Figure 11-39   A new spark plug that was fouled by a too-rich air-fuel mixture. The engine from which this spark plug came had a defective (stuck partially open) injector on this one cylinder only.
QUICK AND EASY SECONDARY IGNITION TESTS ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-40   A water spray bottle is an excellent diagnostic tool to help find an intermittent engine miss caused by a break in a secondary ignition circuit component.
IGNITION TIMING ,[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-41   Typical timing marks. The degree numbers are on the stationary plate and the notch is on the harmonic balancer.
Figure 11-42   Cylinder 1 and timing mark location guide.
Figure 11-43   (a) Typical SPOUT connector as used on many Ford engines equipped with distributor ignition (DI). (b) The connector must be opened (disconnected) to check and/or adjust the ignition timing. On DIS/EDIS systems, the connector is called SPOUT/SAW (spark output/spark angle word). A
Figure 11-43 (continued)   (a) Typical SPOUT connector as used on many Ford engines equipped with distributor ignition (DI). (b) The connector must be opened (disconnected) to check and/or adjust the ignition timing. On DIS/EDIS systems, the connector is called SPOUT/SAW (spark output/spark angle word). B
Figure 11-44   The first mark indicates the direction the rotor is pointing when the distributor is in the engine. The second mark indicates where the rotor is pointing just as it is pulled from the engine.
SCOPE-TESTING THE IGNITION SYSTEM ,[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-45   Typical engine analyzer hookup that includes a scope display. (1) Coil wire on top of the distributor cap if integral type of coil; (2) number 1 spark plug connection; (3) negative side of the ignition coil; (4) ground (negative) connection of the battery.
Figure 11-46   Clip-on adapters are used with an ignition system that uses an integral ignition coil. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
Figure 11-47   Typical secondary ignition oscilloscope pattern.
Figure 11-48   A single cylinder is shown at the top and a 4-cylinder engine at the bottom.  (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
Figure 11-49   Drawing shows what is occurring electrically at each part of the scope pattern.
Figure 11-50   Typical secondary ignition pattern. Note the lack of firing lines on the superimposed pattern.
Figure 11-51   Raster is the best scope position to view the spark lines of all the cylinders to check for differences. Most scopes display cylinder 1 at the bottom. The other cylinders are positioned by firing order above cylinder 1.
Figure 11-52   Display is the only position to view the firing lines of all cylinders. Cylinder 1 is displayed on the left (except for its firing line, which is shown on the right). The cylinders are displayed from left to right by firing order.
Figure 11-53   A downward-sloping spark line usually indicates high secondary ignition system resistance or an excessively rich air-fuel mixture.
Figure 11-54   An upward-sloping spark line usually indicates a mechanical engine problem or a lean air-fuel mixture.
Figure 11-55   The relationship between the height of the firing line and length of the spark line can be illustrated using a rope. Because energy cannot be destroyed, the stored energy in an ignition coil must dissipate totally, regardless of engine conditions.
SCOPE-TESTING A WASTE-SPARK IGNITION SYSTEM ,[object Object],(Continued)
Figure 11-56   A dual-trace scope pattern showing both the power and the waste spark from the same coil (cylinders 1 and 6). Note that the firing line is higher on the cylinder that is under compression (power); otherwise, both patterns are almost identical.
IGNITION SYSTEM TROUBLESHOOTING GUIDE ,[object Object],(Continued)
 

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Ch11

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  • 6. Figure 11-1 A spark tester looks like a regular spark plug with an alligator clip attached to the shell. This tester has a specified gap that requires at least 25,000 volts (25 kV) to fire.
  • 7. Figure 11-2 A close-up showing the recessed center electrode on a spark tester. It is recessed 3/8 in. into the shell and the spark must then jump another 3/8 in. to the shell for a total gap of 3/4 in.
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  • 10. Figure 11-3 Checking an ignition coil using a multimeter set to read ohms. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
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  • 15. Figure 11-4 Measuring the resistance of an HEI pickup coil using a digital multimeter set to the ohms position. The reading on the face of the meter is 0.796 kΩ or 796 ohms in the middle of the 500- to 1,500-ohm specifications.
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  • 20. Figure 11-5 A waveform showing the primary current flow through the primary windings of an ignition coil.
  • 21. Figure 11-6 Schematic of a typical distributorless ignition system showing the location for the power feed and grounds. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
  • 22. Figure 11-7 Connect the scopes current clamp around the feed wire for the primary side of the coil(s). Start the engine and view the current flow waveform. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
  • 23. Observed Current Ramp Times (Continued)
  • 24. Figure 11-8 An example of a good coil current flow waveform pattern. Note the regular shape of the rise time and slope. Duration of the waveform may change as the module adjusts the dwell. The dwell is usually increased as the engine speed is increased. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
  • 25. Figure 11-9 (a) A waveform pattern showing an open in the coil primary. (b) A shorted coil pattern waveform. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation) A
  • 26. Figure 11-9 (a) A waveform pattern showing an open in the coil primary. (b) A shorted coil pattern waveform. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation) B
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  • 28. Figure 11-10 A typical pickup coil showing how the waveform is created as the timer core rotates inside the pole piece.
  • 29. Figure 11-11 (a) A voltage waveform of a pickup coil at low engine speed. (b) A current waveform of the current through the primary windings of the ignition coil at low engine speed. (c) A voltage waveform of a pickup coil at high speed. (d) A current waveform through the primary winding of the ignition coil at high engine speed.
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  • 31. Figure 11-12 An AC voltage is produced by a magnetic sensor. Most sensors should produce at least 0.1 volt AC while the engine is cranking if the pickup wheel has many teeth. If the pickup wheel has only a few teeth, you may need to switch the meter to read DC volts and watch the display for a jump in voltage as the teeth pass the magnetic sensor. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
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  • 33. Figure 11-13 (a) The connection required to test a Hall-effect sensor. (b) A typical waveform from a Hall-effect sensor. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation) A
  • 34. Figure 11-13 (a) The connection required to test a Hall-effect sensor. (b) A typical waveform from a Hall-effect sensor. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation) B
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  • 36. Figure 11-14 (a) The low-resolution signal has the same number of pulses as the engine has cylinders. (b) A dual-trace pattern showing both the low-resolution signal and the high-resolution signals that usually represent 1 degree of rotation. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
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  • 39. Figure 11-15 A track inside an ignition coil is not a short, but rather a low-resistance path or hole that has been burned through from the secondary wiring to the steel core.
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  • 42. Figure 11-16 The relationship between the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor and the camshaft position (CMP) sensor is affected by wear in the timing gear and/or chain.
  • 43. Figure 11-17 A scan tool displays the cam retard on a Chevrolet V-6. The cam retard value should be ± 2 degrees .
  • 44. Figure 11-18 A worn distributor drive gear can be the cause of an out-of-specification camshaft position (CMP) signal.
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  • 48. Figure 11-19 Keys used in a vehicle that had an ignition switch intermittent problem.
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  • 51. Figure 11-22 Using a vacuum hose and a grounded test light to ground one cylinder at a time on a DIS. This works on all types of ignition systems and provides a method for grounding out one cylinder at a time without fear of damaging any component.
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  • 54. Figure 11-20 A length of vacuum hose being used for a coil wire. The vacuum hose is conductive because of the carbon content of the rubber in the hose. This hose measures only 1,000 ohms and was 1 foot long, which is lower resistance than most spark plug wires. Notice the spark from the hose’s surface to the tip of a grounded screwdriver.
  • 55. Figure 11-21 A distributorless ignition system (DIS) can be checked by unplugging both spark plug wires from one ignition coil and starting the engine. The spark should be able to jump the 1-in. (25-mm) distance between the terminals of the coil. No damage to the coil (or module) results because a spark occurs and does not find ground elsewhere.
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  • 60. Figure 11-23 The firing order is cast or stamped on the intake manifold on most engines that have a distributor ignition.
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  • 63. Figure 11-24 Note where the high-voltage spark jumped through the plastic rotor to arc into the distributor shaft. Always check for a defective spark plug(s) when a defective distributor cap or rotor is discovered. If a spark cannot jump to a spark plug, it tries to find a ground path wherever it can.
  • 64. Figure 11-25 This distributor cap should be replaced because of the worn inserts and excessive dusting inside the cap.
  • 65. Figure 11-26 This rotor had arced through to the distributor shaft. The engine would not run above an idle speed and the spark from the coil could easily fire a spark tester.
  • 66. Figure 11-27 Carbon track in a distributor cap. These faults are sometimes difficult to spot and can cause intermittent engine missing. The usual cause of a tracked distributor cap (or coil, if it is a distributorless ignition) is a defective (open) spark plug wire.
  • 67. Figure 11-28 Some rotors are retained by a screw, so look before you pry.
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  • 69. Figure 11-29 With careful visual inspection, the technician discovered this defective spark plug wire.
  • 70. Figure 11-30 Measuring the resistance of a spark plug wire with a multimeter set to the ohms position. The reading of 16.03 kΩ (16,030 ohms) is okay because the wire is about 2-ft. long. Maximum allowable resistance for a spark plug wire this long would be 20kΩ (20,000 ohms).
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  • 73. Figure 11-31 Spark plug wire boot pliers are a handy addition to any tool box.
  • 74. Figure 11-32 Always take the time to install spark plug wires back into the original holding brackets (wiring combs).
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  • 83. Figure 11-33 When removing spark plugs, it is wise to arrange them so that they can be compared and any problem can be identified with a particular cylinder.
  • 84. Figure 11-34 A spark plug thread chaser is a low-cost tool that hopefully will not be used often, but is necessary to clean the threads before new spark plugs are installed.
  • 85. Figure 11-35 Since 1991, General Motors engines have been equipped with slightly (1/8 in. or 3 mm) longer spark plugs. This requires that a longer spark plug socket should be used to prevent the possibility of cracking a spark plug during installation. The longer socket is shown next to a normal 5/8-in. spark plug socket.
  • 86. Figure 11-36 An extended-reach spark plug that shows normal wear. The color and condition indicate that the cylinder is operating correctly.
  • 87. Figure 11-37 Spark plug removed from an engine after a 500-mile race. Note the clipped side (ground) electrode. The electrode design and narrow (0.025 in.) gap are used to ensure that a spark occurs during extremely high engine speed operation. The color and condition of the spark plug indicate that near-perfect combustion has been occurring.
  • 88. Figure 11-38 Typical worn spark plug. Notice the rounded center electrode. The deposits indicate a possible oil usage problem.
  • 89. Figure 11-39 A new spark plug that was fouled by a too-rich air-fuel mixture. The engine from which this spark plug came had a defective (stuck partially open) injector on this one cylinder only.
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  • 93. Figure 11-40 A water spray bottle is an excellent diagnostic tool to help find an intermittent engine miss caused by a break in a secondary ignition circuit component.
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  • 103. Figure 11-41 Typical timing marks. The degree numbers are on the stationary plate and the notch is on the harmonic balancer.
  • 104. Figure 11-42 Cylinder 1 and timing mark location guide.
  • 105. Figure 11-43 (a) Typical SPOUT connector as used on many Ford engines equipped with distributor ignition (DI). (b) The connector must be opened (disconnected) to check and/or adjust the ignition timing. On DIS/EDIS systems, the connector is called SPOUT/SAW (spark output/spark angle word). A
  • 106. Figure 11-43 (continued) (a) Typical SPOUT connector as used on many Ford engines equipped with distributor ignition (DI). (b) The connector must be opened (disconnected) to check and/or adjust the ignition timing. On DIS/EDIS systems, the connector is called SPOUT/SAW (spark output/spark angle word). B
  • 107. Figure 11-44 The first mark indicates the direction the rotor is pointing when the distributor is in the engine. The second mark indicates where the rotor is pointing just as it is pulled from the engine.
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  • 124. Figure 11-45 Typical engine analyzer hookup that includes a scope display. (1) Coil wire on top of the distributor cap if integral type of coil; (2) number 1 spark plug connection; (3) negative side of the ignition coil; (4) ground (negative) connection of the battery.
  • 125. Figure 11-46 Clip-on adapters are used with an ignition system that uses an integral ignition coil. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
  • 126. Figure 11-47 Typical secondary ignition oscilloscope pattern.
  • 127. Figure 11-48 A single cylinder is shown at the top and a 4-cylinder engine at the bottom. (Courtesy of Fluke Corporation)
  • 128. Figure 11-49 Drawing shows what is occurring electrically at each part of the scope pattern.
  • 129. Figure 11-50 Typical secondary ignition pattern. Note the lack of firing lines on the superimposed pattern.
  • 130. Figure 11-51 Raster is the best scope position to view the spark lines of all the cylinders to check for differences. Most scopes display cylinder 1 at the bottom. The other cylinders are positioned by firing order above cylinder 1.
  • 131. Figure 11-52 Display is the only position to view the firing lines of all cylinders. Cylinder 1 is displayed on the left (except for its firing line, which is shown on the right). The cylinders are displayed from left to right by firing order.
  • 132. Figure 11-53 A downward-sloping spark line usually indicates high secondary ignition system resistance or an excessively rich air-fuel mixture.
  • 133. Figure 11-54 An upward-sloping spark line usually indicates a mechanical engine problem or a lean air-fuel mixture.
  • 134. Figure 11-55 The relationship between the height of the firing line and length of the spark line can be illustrated using a rope. Because energy cannot be destroyed, the stored energy in an ignition coil must dissipate totally, regardless of engine conditions.
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  • 136. Figure 11-56 A dual-trace scope pattern showing both the power and the waste spark from the same coil (cylinders 1 and 6). Note that the firing line is higher on the cylinder that is under compression (power); otherwise, both patterns are almost identical.
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