Online forum

Mariel Amez – Rosario – Argentina
Literature in English III – 2008
Teacher Education Programme – Final Year
Example of an online class forum

Hyperfiction
Published by Amez, Mariel on 12/09/2008

Message:
Hyperfiction

Try some of the links below. Make sure you look for links in all parts of the screen,
including images. In some cases there is audio available as well.

You can choose whether to read the article quot;Hyperfictionquot; by Claudia Ferradas Moi
before or after this experience.

Then write a paragraph summarising your impressions, and publish it here before
October 3rd. Feel free to comment on the comments as well.

If you want to look for other examples and share them, it would be most welcome.

Hyperfiction links:

http://www.ryman-novel.com/ a novel for the Internet about London
Underground in seven cars and a crash

http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/crazyworld/ crazy world news (from
Learn English, British Council)

http://eastgate.com/ReadingRoom/WhatFits/WhatFits.htm What Fits by
Adrienne Eisen

http://www.eastgate.com/LastingImage/Welcome.html Lasting Image by
Carolyn Guyer and Michael Joyce

http://members.fortunecity.com/phharper/index-frames.htm five|standing (a hypertextual
portal to the diverse lives of five linked individuals)

http://www.hyperfiction.net/

http://www.thetherapist.com/index.html

http://www.eastgate.com/Circa/ Circa by Edward Falco

http://scribble.com/world3/meme1/Mola/index.html Mola. Collaborative web project by
Carolyn Guyer, Michael Joyce, Nancy Lin, Suze Schweitzer, and Nigel Kerr. 1994-95

Check http://www.eastgate.com/ReadingRoom.html for more examples

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Traverso, María on 02/10/2008

Message:
Hello girls and Fer!
I had a look at three of these hyperfiction links: ryman-novel.com, hyperfiction.net and
thetherapist.com. I must say that at first I was quite lost. Then, I started clicking and
gradually understanding how hyperfiction works - even though I had read the article on
it before accessing the sites.
I completely agree with Moi when she says that the reader takes an active part in the


process of reading, thus, empowering them in the creation of meaning for thet text.
Besides, as she also points out, hyperfiction is an excellent tool to achieve more
quot;democracyquot; in a clasroom - since each student would have read a different quot;versionquot; (
multiple texts.)
Of the three sites I visited the one which I liked most was the ryman-novel about the
London underground. It tells you that while you're reading you're going to be like God in
that you'll know what the quot;charactersquot; which are travelling in this train feel and think.
That caught my attention and, so, I went on reading. One thing I found rather
quot;frustratingquot; is the fact that many times you go back to the same lexia. I felt as if I had
to start everything again and never reach and end or conclusion.
As regards two of the questions posed in the article by Moi, while I was surfing these
sites I thought about the real freedom we - the readers- have in order to chose where
to go. I believe there is not much in fact- obviously much more than in a traditional
book! But we can only chose between a predetermined number of links. Moreover, I
don't think hyperfiction is really a democratic form. Still today, not everybody has
access to a computer or the internet and, among those who have it, there are many
who lack the quot;know-how.quot; I personally believe that hyperfiction is another way of
widening the gap between literate and non-literate people (literate in its new and wider
sense)
As you may have noticed, I'm always against technology ha..
Hope to read your comments soon.
María

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Amez, Mariel on 03/10/2008

Message:
Really thorough contribution, Maria! You have covered quite a number of issues.
I think some of your classmates may choose to express their point of view about your
comments, too.
As regards this sense of frustration you mention, can you find any point of contact with
the features of Postmodernism?
Read you soon,
Mariel

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Ramírez, Melina on 03/10/2008

Message:
Hello everyone!!

I visited all the sites published in the forum and to tell the truth I was completely lost. I
was so engaged that I wanted to visit all the links and click in all parts of the screen but
I realized that it will be a never ending story. So, I decided to focus my attention on only
three links: http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/crazyworld/. http://www.hyperfiction.net/
I forgot to say that before visiting the sites I read the notes on Hyperfiction by Claudia
Ferradas Moi. I had a vague idea of what hyperfiction was but I wanted to check if what
I knew was correct.
When I visited http://www.thetherapist.com/index.html, which is one of my favourite
links it was amazing to see that I had the control to build up my own story, I could jump
from one link to another according to my interests. In view of this, I totally agree with
what Moi says, that the reader takes an active part in the reading process and as
George Meroid points out it is the reader who decides where to go and what to read.
After exploring these links I read the questions at the back of Moi's article and I started
reflecting upon one of them that reads: Will screens ever replace books?. Unluckily, I
think that the answer is yes. Books are being replaced by computers, information is


available in the web just at a click of a button and as Maria said Internet offers the
reader the opportunity to choose where to go and what to read, hyperfiction is a clear
example.
I really enjoyed visiting these links and I came to the conclusion that I didnt know that
hyperfiction worked in this way

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Centioni, Laura on 03/10/2008

Message:
Hello everybody! I've visited most of the links we have but I focused mostly on those
which caught my attention. One of them was hyperfiction.net and the other was ryman-
novel.com. As Maria said, at the beginning I was a bit at a loss, so I decided to read the
notes and then go back to the sites. Of course after reading the notes, I approached
the sites with the different view. In spite of this, I still find this question of hyperfiction a
bit disorganized. It's not that I can't see the benefits its has: as it is quoted in Moi's
article, the reader helps the author shape the story and the reader never reads the
same novel the same way twice and I believe that hyperfiction is a very interesting way
of looking at things and of reading and interpreting them but in spite of this, as I said
before, I cannot find an organization in the way things are arranged and I am left with a
feeling of no finality. That is to say, I think that when we read a book, or any text, in
spite of the different interpretations, we all go towards the same direction. By contrast,
with hyperfiction we chose which direction to take, and even though I don't see it as
something bad, I still don't like it much because of what I said before.
See you,
Laura

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Ferranti, María Eugenia on 03/10/2008

Message:
Hello everybody!
I agree with Maria since sometimes I am also a bit against technology. It is difficult for
me to read long texts from the screen of the computer. Although nowadays I get used
to the screen, I really dont like it very much. It was very complicated at the beginning to
understand how hyperfiction works, even though before doing the forum, the first thing I
did was reading the notes by Claudia Ferrads Moi and then I entered the sites.
Nevertheless, I enjoyed this experience as the sites I accessed (www.rymen-novel.com
and www.learnenglish.org.uk/crazyworld) were very enriching. I found them very
interesting.
I also agree with Maria when she stated that it is as if you never reach a conclusion.
Even though the sites were well-developed, sometimes I lost the main ideas of the
story. For example while I was reading (ryman-novel), I entered into so many different
links that I felt a bit lost. I had to start reading again from the beginning of the story and
I felt I never reached and end. Besides, I was left with a feeling of incompleteness.
Perhaps I had this difficulty because I am used to reading books in a linear sequence (I
mean, without having to read from different places).
In addition, I dont like the way in which George Merlod defined HYPERFICTION since
the reader never read the same story the same way. Although I love to find different
interpretations to the same story, I like to read it in a linear way and then try to analyze
it. On the other hand, I completely agree with Claudia Ferrads Moi when she stated
that hypertext can be considered a threat to the power of the book and he publishing
industry. I hope hyperfiction continue to develop but without taking over books, which
are in my opinion highly valuable tools.
See you in class
Mariu


File Attachment: lit-hyperfiction.doc (25.5 kb.)

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Tournier, María Eugenia on 03/10/2008

Message:
Hello!
Firstly, I read the notes on hyperfiction by Claudia Ferradas Moi. Then, as the girls
mentioned, at the beginning I was at a lost. After visiting all the sites Mariel gave us
and clicking in every part of the screen, I found out that, in my opinion, the most
interesting sites concerning hyperfiction were:
http://www.eastgate.com/LastingImage/Welcome.html

As regards the first one, for me it was interesting because I could find different
categories such as hypertext, tool, fiction, non-fiction, poetry, books, etc. This was
guided for me to search for information. The site was very well organized!
As regards the second site, for me it was amazing. Not only the picture of the man on
the left but also the boxes in which by clicking you could enter randomly to different
stories. Whats more, it was important to give the reader different options to take a look
at the contents.
To tell you the truth, at the beginning I thought it was going to be a bit boring for me to
access the different sites because I prefer to do quot;activequot; exercises and not just sit in
front of the computer and click in different places, but I really enjoyed it. It was very
interesting not only to read the notes but also to visit the sites.

RE:Hyperfiction

Message:
Loss seems to be the keyword so far...

As regards quot;the reader never reads the same story the same wayquot;, how far do you
think this is also true of books?

Be careful with www.eastgate.com. The quot;textquot; is what you see on the screen with a full
link, such as http://eastgate.com/ReadingRoom/WhatFits/WhatFits.htm .
The inks on top ( hypertext, tool, fiction, non-fiction, poetry, books, which Ma Eugenia
T. mentions) correspond to the site, which includes many different aspects, among
them, examples of hyperfiction.

A question: Melina & Ma Eugenia F. were you actually able to see
www.learnenglish.org.uk/crazyworld? I can't.

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Chiesa, Laura on 03/10/2008

Message:
Hello everyone!

What a difficult task! (I wanted to avoid the use of quot;I was at a lossquot;) The notes proved to
be challenging but clear, I really liked them a lot. As the girls, I first read the notes by
Ferradas Moi, just in case.
As María mentioned above, the site quot;ryman-novelquot; about London underground is a
clear example that the reader is the one who puts the different components of a story in


order and in that s/he makes sense of what s/he is reading. It is a very interesting way
of approaching information.

As regards Mariel's question, I couldn't agree more with quot;the reader never reads the
same story the same wayquot; When I read this, I remembered quot;The Turn of the Screwquot;, for
example. There we have a very clear example of how a text leads to different
interpretations and, according to the viewpoint we choose, we can say that if we take
Borges's idea of the quot;forking pathsquot; the text is different, is a new text, for every reader.
The same is true of books that we read as children and we re-read as adolescents and
grown ups. Don't you have the feeling that you're reading a new book?

By reading Claudia Ferradas Moi, I also related the theory with books I used to read as
a child, called quot;Elige tu propia aventuraquot; These books may be rather silly right now, but
I think they follow the basic idea behind links, for example. And when I entered
thetherapist.com, I saw that that site works in a very similar way, giving the reader
choices as regards what to read next. I have never entered this site and I really liked it.

As regards the questions in Moi's text, the one that stuck in my mind was quot;Will screens
ever replace books?quot; I hope not! As Maria Eugenia F said, it is not the same to read a
book than to read from the screen. Reading from the PC makes me feel terribly
exhausted and it gives me a headache. Reading a book, on the other hand, is a very
relaxing experience which helps me in various ways, among them, it helps me to fall
asleep (no kidding, it's great!). I think that both kinds of reading can be considered
proper reading but I prefer reading books.

I don't know if these answers are ok, I hope they are! Have a nice weekend, everyone.
See you on Monday.
Yours,
Laura

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Ramírez, Melina on 03/10/2008

Message:
Yes, I was able to see the link. It says the following: quot;·The page you have asked for
may have moved. Find it on our new site
Our site has moved to:
www.britishcouncil.org/learnenglish

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Roche, Cristina on 03/10/2008

Message:
It's impossible not to be lost!!!! So many links... it's never ending. Well, in the notes of
Hyperfiction it is mentioned that the reader is the one who decides where to go and
when to put an end to the story.
I've vistited four sites http://www.ryman-novel.com/ ,
http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/crazyworld/,
http://eastgate.com/ReadingRoom/WhatFits/WhatFits.htm and
http://www.thetherapist.com/index.html.
In the first one, I got lost and I coulnd't follow the story, and on top, the author did not
reeveal the end of it! I was rather frsutrated at the end (answering one of the questions


from the notes on quot;Hyperfictionquot;) ...
The site I liked most is the second one, it's very interesting for teachers of English
since there are many useful tools and resources for teaching
Though, as C. F. Moi said, quot;hyperfiction is a temptation to explorequot;, I completely agree
with the girls who said that books should not be replaced!

RE:Hyperfiction

Message:
Melina and Cristina (and everyone else):

What you find when it says
Our site has moved to:www.britishcouncil.org/learnenglish

is a great site for teachers (I thought you knew it), but the hyperfiction Crazy World is
not available there (or anywhere). That was a story about a spaceship, and some
aliens, and stuff of the sort.

Best,
M.

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Mateu, Sabrina on 04/10/2008

Message:
Hello everyone!
After reading the notes, I've visited www.ryman-novel.com , www.thetherapist.com
,www.eastgate.com and I was able to see quite clearly what Hyperfiction consist of.
Firstly, I would like to concentrate on what Moi said about the active role of readers of
Hyperfiction. We, as readers, are empowered to create meaning for the texts we read.
There are many forked ways and readers have the freedom to choose which way they
want to go. An example of this is I the ryman-novel about the underground train. There
you get to choose to see the thoughts and feelings of the different characters in the
order you want. This sounds as a great experience, however, Hyperficition can be a
frustrating experience at times. The downside of hyperfiction is that readers may end
up going back to the same lexia, and feel as if they were inside a labyrinth without
being able to find our way out.
Secondly, as regards the idea that quot;the reader never reads the same story the same
wayquot;, I definitely agree with Laura Ch in that it is also true for the reading of books. The
second time you read a book will show you things you haven't seen the firs time you
read it. This could be a consequence of the passing of time. Between the first and
second readings we may have learnt new things, we may have new tools to approach
the text or we may have experienced different things that lead us to see the story with
different eyes.
Thirdly, I would like to comment on the democratic aspect of hyperfiction. As Moi said,
the access to computer hardware and the necessary know-how is the privilege of a
few, so in view of this situation I don't think word democratic is suitable to characterise
hyperfiction.
Well,that's it for now...
Hope you have a nice weekend.
See you on Monday.
S

RE: Hyperfiction


Answered by Stefani, Luciana on 04/10/2008

Message:
hello everybody!
I've visited some of the sites and and agree with the girls that quot;lossquot; is the key word.
I've read the notes before visiting the sites but I found it rather disorganised, as Laura
Centioni said.
I also agree with Moi when she says that the reader takes an active part in the process
of reading, thus, empowering them in the creation of meaning for thet text, as Maria
pointed out.
I consider this an interesting way of reading because we never read a novel the same
way twice and it seems as if you never reach the end.
as some of the girls, I also find it difficult to read long texts from the screen directly, so
it was not an easy task to follow the stories.
when I visited the sties I also thought of the questions at the end of the notes. I Think it
is true that books will be replaced by computers. information is obtained much quicker
and it saves a lot of space (everything can be stored in a memory stick!) .
I really enjoyed this experience, I didn't know that hyperficcion worked this way!
see you

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Mosca, Jesica on 04/10/2008

Message:
As everybody said, at the begining I was completely lost because I didn't have a clear
idea of what HYPERFICTION was and because of so many links. So, I read the notes
by Moi and then I visited the sites. The one which I liked the most was
http://www.hyperfiction.net/ because there I easily found its definition and its purpose.
I agree with Moi when she says that the readers' task is to give meaning to the text and
that the same reader may determine different meanings each time he/she reads the
text. And this is the purpose of hyperfiction: to offer multiple readings and multiple
texts.
As regards hypertext, I found it difficult to visit all the quot;blocksquot; linked because there
were multiple never-ending links which made me get lost. So, as Laura and Luciana
stated, hyperfiction is a bit disorganized because it leads to different interpretations.
However, I think that this may make a reading easy to understand since you have
different views to take into account to get a sense of finality when you finish reading.
Besides, the reading may be more challenging for students in a classroom.
MOreover, the use of technology provides the reader with many opportunities to get
multiple meanings, which is also more appealing than a book (but it's not my case
because I don't like technology so much)
To conclude, I would say that this non-linear reading helps to put and end to a story
which may be improved by the use of technology

RE: Hyperfiction
Answered by Giménez, Ma. Soledad on 05/10/2008

Message:
First I gave a quick look at all the pages. Then, I read the notes. Finally, I went back to
what has become my quot;entertainment pagequot; which is:
http://www.thetherapist.com/index.html.I'm having a great time coming and going,
investigating, going back to what I've read before. It's fantastic how the text creates
doubts and makes you continue researching. However it is impossible not to get lost
and overwhelmed. Anyway, I've related my experience to Theodor Nelson's definition
of hypertex when he says thatquot; it is a non-sequential writing - text that branches and
allows choices to the reader... a series of text chunks connected by links which offer
the reader different pathwaysquot;.


George Melrod also makes a point by saying that quot;you help the author shape the story,
and ... you never read the same story the same way twicequot;, I believe that these two
writers are the ones who better summarize my experience. I hope you've all enjoyed it
the same way I did.
CU

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Ateca, Fernando on 05/10/2008

Message:
I agree with the girls when they say that screens shouldnt replace books. Reading
short texts on the computer sometimes saves time, but when it comes to longer texts,
the experience would result exhausting as Laura said. Just think on how many times
we change positions and move our heads when reading a novel. And we always adapt
the position of the book to the way we are sitting. This becomes impossible with a
computer, even with a notebook. To read on the computer, we have to sit straight all
the time and we cant move the screen to suit our position if we get tired of sitting
straight.

Hyperfiction is quite an interesting world I think. I found the sites very exciting, but I fail
to see how we can use it in the classroom. The only way I could think to use it its as
extensive reading, but to exploit it as we do with novels would become rather difficult.
As a text may have so many readings, getting to an agreement would be extremely
difficult and there would be as many interpretations as students in the class. It would be
a mess!

Another thing I didnt like about hyperficiton has to do with one of the questions at the
end of the notes: up to what extent is the reader free to choose where s/he is going? I
think that the reader is not trully free to choose what to do in the story. The author
generally offers us a limited number of possibilities to choose and each choice we
make leads us to where the author wants. The author is the one who decides the
consequences of our decisions. I do not feel that the reader is really contributing
anything to the shaping of the text, but just exploring the number of possibilities the
writer could think of.

I hope you dont think Im against technology because its not true (I cant imagine the
world without my computer!), but I do not think hyperficition would be of much use in
the classroom. Perhaps, attending a seminar on hypertexts would be illuminating for
me and would show me their usefulness.

See you!

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Ateca, Fernando on 05/10/2008

Message:
sorry! I dont know what's going on, but all the apostrophes dissapeared!

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Traverso, María on 05/10/2008

Message:
Hello! It's me again!
I just wanted to anwer the question Mariel had asked me some quot;commentsquot; above:
about the point of contact between my sense of frustration and features of


Postmodernism.
I think that they may be related in that, in postmodernity, there is no clear order, on the
contrary there is chaos, indeterminacy, no unity. All these lead us to feel frustrated and
lost as we can never make a coherent, unified quot;piecequot; out of anything and, therefore,
we find ourselves in a never ending circle. Not being able to achieve quot;a goalquot; in
whatever we are doing will inevitably lead us to frustration (reading this new form of
literature - hyperfiction- is a clear example of this)
As regards the question of whether we ever read the same text twice, I agree with
Laura when she says we don't read a story the same way and we generally find new
meanings or interpretations. However, the actual words are the same - not as in
hyperfiction-, what changes is the interpretation we assigned to them according to our
new experiences, thoughts, feelings at the moment of reading. I also believe that while
some things inside a story may be read in a different way, the general meaning will
remain rather quot;stablequot; for each reader(it's quite difficult to express my idea here and in
a written form....)
See u soon,
Mari

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Tornambé, Sandra on 05/10/2008

Message:
Hello everyone!
I had a look at some of these links:http://www.ryman-
novel.com,www.learnenglish.org.uk/crazyworld/crazyworldnews and
www.hyperfiction.net.
At first, it seemed quite difficult to understand how hyperfiction works. But after I went
back to the notes by Claudia Ferradas Moi, I started clicking and was able to know
more about how the process works. I agree with Moi when she says that readers have
an active role in hyperfiction. It is a fact, that as readers, we decide where to go
throughout the texts which are provided and give meaning to them.
The link I enjoyed the most was www.learnenglish.org.uk/.It's a useful tool for teachers
of English and very motivating for children to explore new ways of learning.
However, I also found it quite frustrating to interpret long texts from the screen, as
Fernando and Laura said. Reading for a long period of time from the computer can be
stressful! There's nothing better than sitting back on a comfortable sofa reading an
interesting book.
That's all for now.See you!

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Kunc, Valeria on 05/10/2008

Message:
Hello everyone!
Some days ago, I entered to all the web pages that Mariel suggested to us and I
realized that Hyperfiction was not an easy task to deal with so this weekend I decided
to do it the other way round. I read Claudia Ferradas Mois notes on Hyperfiction first
and it helped me a lot!!
Personally speaking, as some of my companions have stated before, I prefer books. A
reader becomes so active in these hypertexts that its almost stressful!! As regards the
state the reader never reads the story the same way twice is completely true because
when you finally reach the end of a story, you go back and see what would happened if
you had chosen another alternative as in www.thetheraphist.com .
To sum up, I feel that this non linear reading is not for me!
See you
VALE


RE:Hyperfiction

Message:
Dear all,

I'm sure you have all enjoyed reading other views on this experience. What a pity
Flavia could not get round to sharing!

Let me confess now that I - a quot;linearquot; reader - share the feeling expressed by many that
I miss the sense of fulfilment that an quot;ordinaryquot; narrative provides. I say quot;ordinaryquot;
because it's not only a question of the medium (paper vs screen). Think of Cortazar's
Rayuela, or contemporary tendencies in film, all of which exhibit this postmodern
tendency towards chaos and incompletion.

I'm glad to see that many of you found the experience entertaining. However, as some
of you found it difficult to tell a website from quot;the thing itselfquot; I'm uploading a file in Unit
3 with two examples of what you should have been looking at.

Some very interesting issues have been raised: whether we actually re-read anything,
or we actually read afresh any text every time we approach it, be it on screen or in
print; the future of books; the actual degree of freedom we have, or whether this is just
a new, more hidden form of author control.

As regards its use in the classroom, bear in mind that the different paths taken may
create an info or opinion gap that can be extremely useful to foster speaking or writing,
and break with the isolation often associated with computer work. Having said that,
also take into account how realistic the reading of hyperfiction may be in our own
context.

On the other hand, I think that, circumstances permitting, you could even get your sts
to write hyperfiction. Precisely the enormous amount of material required calls for
collaborative tasks. How about giving them a set of words they have to use in writing a
short piece, and then linking all the pieces in rhizomatic fashion to create a larger text?
Each group could then link them in various ways... Or a topic, and then they look for
words that are repeated? All it takes is a word processor (it can be done in Word,
without Internet access), and a little bit of skill which many are likely to have.

The task is accomplished. You now have experienced yet a different text type. I would
love it, though, if you chose to continue commenting on the topic.

See you tomorrow.

Best,

Mariel

RE:Hyperfiction
Answered by Moscarola, Flavia on 06/10/2008

Message:
Sorry for the delay, it was really impossible for me to do this before. I just answer the
topic in case you want to read my contribution.
Well, first of all, I want to tell you that I had thought that the sites were going to be
much easier but they took me a lot of time to understand what they were about. I found


most of them very interesting but difficult. I opened a link and when I closed it I realised
I did not have any idea of what I had been reading!! So I decided to take only one,
understand it and enjoy it. I chose http://www.thetherapist.com/index.html. This site is
great, especially because I love this kind of sites related to mental health. I did not have
time to click on every link because it was going to be endless but it was my favourite
one. But I must admit that then I started looking for other sites in the web and I found
one which was really interesting to me: http://www.well.com/user/jmalloy/mybio.html
Relating what I saw to the theory( Hyerfiction by Moi), I agree with Maria and Meli. This
site may help see students' personal opinion and ideas to express. Also, it is true that
the reader takes an active part in the reading process and as George meroid says, it is
the reader who decides where to go and what to read.
As regards this question of screens replacing books, my answer is YES. Nowadays, we
are looking for the easiest and quickest ways and HYPERFICTION is a clear example
of this; you just click on a link and you start the journey, let say.

RE:Hyperfiction

Message:
Thanks, Flavia, for joining in!

The actual hyperfiction text written by Judy Malloy which is available online for free can
be found at:

http://www.well.com/user/jmalloy/uncleroger/party1.html

Good contribution!

Best,
Mariel

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