Amazon case x-x-5349850

Product details inquiry from Amazon customer [Amazon Buyer]
From: [Amazon Buyer]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 5:28 PM
To: Vegas Best Deals

Item: HP Compaq Tablet PC tc4400 - Core 2 Duo T7200 / 2 GHz - RAM 2 GB - HDD
120 GB - GMA 950 - Gigabit Ethernet - WLAN : 802.11a/b/g, Bluetooth 2.0 EDR - TPM
- fingerprint reader - Win XP Tablet PC - 12.1" TFT 1024 x 768 ( XGA )

Hi,

I'm interested in purchasing this item but I just wanted to get some
details.

1. I see it is described as "like new." Can you describe any/all
instances of wear and tear or functionality issues I should know about?

2. Your listing says it comes with a docking station and a power
supply. What about the required pen? What about backup installation
software? Are there any pieces missing from this sale that would
normally have come with the item when NEW?

Thanks in advance, I hope to hear from you soon!

Re: Product details inquiry from Amazon customer [Amazon Buyer]
From: Vegas Best Deals
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:09 AM
To: [Amazon Buyer]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, very busy last few days. This HP Tablet
notebook is in excellent condition. Comes with everything as described, I will include a
new notebook bag to go with it, I will get back to you in a couple of days with pics, I
have some just cant find them, also it does include the digital pen. This is a very nice
laptop.

Thank you for your interest.
Mike

Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 1:07 PM

No worries on the pictures. Sounds like a fair deal so if anything is
that dire upon arrival we'll discuss return/refund if it comes to that.
BUT, I don't think it will so I went ahead and made the purchase.

I elected the Expedited Shipping so let me know when you plan to ship
and when you have some tracking information for me.

Sound good?

Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 2:35 PM
To: [Amazon Buyer]

Thank you for your order, I will ship out tomorrow morning. I will email you with the
tracking information at that time.

Thank you again, I hope you enjoy the Laptop/Tablet. I would appreciate your positive
feedback if everything is as described. This is a very nice Tablet laptop, everyone in our
office wanted it for themselves!

Thank you again!
Mike

Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 3:35 PM

Howdy, did you get some tracking info for me today??

Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 2:57 PM

Mike-

The computer arrived yesterday and I opened it up this morning.

The physical condition of the device seems top-notch. However, there
are some massive functionality issues and I just don't know how to
proceed.

Here are the details...

I started up the machine and found that it could not connect to the
internet or play sounds. In fact, windows did not seem to be
communicating with those devices at all.

So, I plugged my wired ethernet connection into the computer and ran
"windows update" hoping that it was just a matter of installing some
drivers/updates.

The updates downloaded and partially installed and the computer
prompted me to restart to complete the update process. After
restarting, the Windows 7 logo did not appear. Instead, I got a window
saying that Windows could not be started but that it would try to
repair itself. After watching a progress bar for about 10 minutes, the
computer said it could not repair itself and thus could not start
windows, and gave me the option to report the problem to Microsoft
(which I did) and restart to try the repair again. I viewed the error
report and it said a bunch of things I don't understand. I did see
something about "corrupt file". So, I restarted, it tried again to
repair itself to no avail, and I got a similar message, this time
saying something about "missing OS file".

I called up my local computer repair shop. The only suggestion they
had was to bring the computer in for a full wipe/re-install for a fee
of $120. I told them I could not spare $120 as I had just used all my
disposable income to by the computer in the first place! (When I
started this endeavor I only wanted to spend about $300).

They suggested I ask you if you would be willing to pay for the repair
service and to contact you for your thoughts.

If you needed video proof of the malfunction I can upload some photos.

Let me know what you think because I really don't want to have to
return this item!

~[Amazon Buyer]

To: [Amazon Buyer]

Good afternoon [Amazon Buyer], I am sorry to hear about the issues you are having with
the HP! The only option I can offer to you is to return the item, and after receiving it, we
will issue you a refund.

I apologize for any inconvenience, we strive to offer only the best products that we come
across as you have seen in the quality of condition of this HP Tablet. It sounds like a
software issue. It may have been jarred in the shipping as we tested it prior to sending it
out to you and it was working fine, in fact there are about 4 people here that want to buy
it but you were first to act.

Again thank you for the notice on the problems with the HP. I can only hope that we can
serve you better in the future!

Thank you
Mike


Will your refund also include my cost to ship it back to you?

To: [Amazon Buyer]

Please send wraped in original packaging US Post office first class
Not Priority and I wlll refund the shipping please include the receipt
Thank you
Mike


Mike-

Just a heads up, I came down with a bad cold this morning so it may be
a little bit before I get that computer shipped out.

Let me know if this will be a problem for any reason.

~[Amazon Buyer]

To: [Amazon Buyer]

Sorry to hear your under the weather I would like to get it by the end
of next week if you cam manage, I want to get it back to the seller to
me that I was helping out, but if you have a problem just let mr know.
At this point I want to keep my cost down with the return shipping as
my margin on this item is very low. Either way I wish you a speedy
recovery, there is nothing other than family more important than our
health. Let mr know if there is anything else I can do to help
Best regards
Mike


Oh it will be back by then.

If I have to bump up the shipping to make sure of that I WILL PAY THE
DIFFERENCE and you can just refund the payment and whatever you deem a
"standard shipping" rate.

Also, since I've just been stuck in bed, I ran some diagnostics on the
computer today. It passed all the memory tests (yay) but it did find a
bad sector on the hard drive. I ran a repair function and it was
successful but still no luck getting in to windows =

Now, the machine just starts, loads the hp startup screen and then says
"a disk error occurred, press ctrl+alt+del to restart."

I talked to the computer repair store again, they said it's $120 only
IF they fix it. The cost to look at it is only $50. Again, this
computer seems like such a sweet item that I think it is worth to ME
(don't worry, not you) to risk the $50 and just see what the pros have
to say.

Sound good?

Thanks for your understanding and kind words in the previous message!


PS - according to what I've found online the "disk error" could be due
to something as simple as a loose HDD connection inside the unit (as
you said earlier, possibly jarred in shipping). But I'll see what the
repair shop says and report back to you.

Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 9:41 AM

Mike-

Did you get my last message? I didn't want to take the computer to the
repair shop without your approval.

To sum things up, here's where we're at:

Option 1
A. I (not you) would pay $50 to have the repair shop try and fix the
computer.
B. If it works, I (not you) pay them another $70, walk home happy with
a working computer, and send you a message saying I'm keeping it.
C. If it doesn't work, I ship it back to you and you refund my initial
purchase price plus the new shipping (which will be included on a
receipt) and I will send it in the manner you requested in a previous
message.
D. If it is getting close to the end of next week, I will use an
expedited shipping method and you would only have to refund the
original purchase price + whatever you deem a standard (not expedited)
shipping rate.

OR
Option 2
A. For whatever reason you do not want me to bring the computer to the
repair shop and I will proceed with option 1-C above.

Let me know what you think because the repair shop closes for the
weekend in 5.5 hours!

~[Amazon Buyer]

PS - I'm feeling a little better as of this morning. I'd say I'm at
about 60% right now... much better than the 20% from a few days ago.


Mike-

I shipped the package today and it should arrive in one week. I did
not pay for tracking information to keep your cost down.

Since you hadn't replied in some time, I took the computer to the
repair shop to see if it could be salvaged. Everything checked out fine
except the motherboard. They said the video card portion of the
motherboard was bad and that the whole board would need to be replaced.
He didn't even bother quoting me a price to replace it. He just said
it would be too expensive for a tablet model and that "I got screwed."

I'm sure that is open to interpretation and in communicating with you I
believe that you thought you were selling me a WORKING product.

Ultimately, like I said, the package is on its why to you and should
arrive in one week.

Here are the totals for the refund we discussed:
$404.41 (original cost/shipping) + $21.14 (today's shipping, receipt is
inside package!) = $425.55

If you wanted to take responsibility for the bad motherboard, I also
included the receipt/evaluation from the repair shop inside the
package. I would appreciate any compensation you deemed fair, but I
understand you are not bound in any way to do so.
$404.41 (original cost/shipping) + $21.14 (today's shipping) + $54.38
(repair evaluation) = $479.93

I'm sorry this particular sale did not work out! It was nice working
with you and best of luck in the future,
~[Amazon Buyer]

Sent: Friday, October 1, 2010 6:40 AM

Sir,

Could you please reply to my (many) previous attempts to contact you?
You're really making me nervous about the reliability of this
transaction.

To: [Amazon Buyer]

Sorry for your confusion, as I have only received the one email to reply to stating that
you have shipped back the computer, and that you decided to take it to a repair shop. As
you may recall the first time you stated that you had a problem and asked if would pay
for a repair person to look at it, I indicated that the only option I could offer was for you
to send the HP tablet laptop and docking station in a computer case back to me for a
refund. You then emailed me to state that you really liked the HP and decided to take it to
a repair shop on your own, and later after shipping sent me a note asking if I would
consider paying some or all of the repair costs.

The problem that I have right now is that this laptop was in perfect working condition
when it was shipped to you, as WE TEST AND RETEST every item we sell on
Amanzon.com BEFORE we ship it out, otherwise we would never ship it out. You stated
that there is some sort of motherboard or video card problem, and at this point how do I
know wheater you or your repair person did some damage to the HP? I will have a
professional repair shop inspect this laptop when I receive it, and I will let you know
what they find. As I stated before this was a perfectly good in NEW condition HP Tablet
Laptop when it was shipped to you. You do not have any reason to worry about my
getting back to you on as you stated in your last email to me, unless you or your repair
person have caused the damage to the HP.

Sincerely
Mike


Mike,

I'm glad that you test your devices before sending them, but from day
one I told you the computer was not even aware that a wireless card or
sound device was connected to the computer. I also told you that I
plugged in an ethernet cable to connect manually and run windows update
in case it was a driver issue. I also told you that the computer could
not even successfully enter windows after this attempt to update.
(Thankfully Amazon has records of all these exchanges.) Now I gave you
every benefit of the doubt the whole way which is why I was willing to
pay the cost to have it professionally looked at because I trusted you
when you said it was a functioning item. I emailed you on the 22nd to
ask if this "sounded good" and you never replied since then. Since you
weren't responding and I wanted to get the computer back to you ASAP
(as we discussed), I took the computer in to be looked at - again, if
it was in such good condition, it must be a simple fix, right?

It was only after the repair shop (which has been in business since
1981) said that "I got screwed" because you sold me a computer with a
bad motherboard that I thought "maybe this guy would like to take some
responsibility for this because the item was clearly not in the
condition promised at purchase." That's the only reason I offered you
to pay the diagnostic bill.

In addition, even if the problem was caused in the span of trying to
run windows update, maybe that's because the computer was originally
built for Windows XP. That's apparently what it shipped with as that's
what the service tag on the bottom of the computer said.

So, if you would like to take it up with whoever you got the computer
from, or whoever installed the new HDD the shop told me about, or
whoever put Windows 7 on an XP machine or whoever was responsible for
the computer arriving in poor-working order, or even the repair shop
itself (716-633-1088 job #3337) - that's fine with me.

What's not fine is you taking the tone of blaming me when all I wanted
was to purchase the device I was promised. I can assure you my plan
was not to order an item, have it not work, spend two days researching
"disk errors" on the internet, pay a diagnostic fee, send it back and
then HOPE TO BREAK EVEN - yea... what a great scheme.

I've already wasted enough of my time because the device you sent me
did not work - plain and simple. If it's in as good a shape as you
said it was, you should have no problem selling it again and it's on
it's way back to you. For now, at the very least, I would appreciate

you refund my purchase cost and the new shipping as soon as possible.
I included all necessary receipts so you can look them over as you like.

Thank you,
~[Amazon Buyer]

Sent: Monday, October 4, 2010 8:52 PM

So... it's been over 72 hours and no reply. Still think I shouldn't be
concerned with your responsiveness?

===New Point #1===
On September 22nd at 8:49 PM you wrote me a very nice message hoping
for me to feel better.

Thirteen minutes later (September 22nd at 9:02 PM) I said that I was
willing to take the computer in for repairs and pay the bill myself.

I said "...this computer seems like such a sweet item that I think it
is worth to ME (don't worry, not you) to risk the $50 and just see what
the pros have to say.

Sound good?"

Clearly you received this message since three days ago you wrote: "You
then emailed me to state that you really liked the HP and decided to
take it to a repair shop on your own..."

And yet, you did NOT reply. If you had an issue with me bringing in
the computer for repairs, you probably should have WRITTEN ME TO SAY SO.

But you did not, even after I requested your input AGAIN on the 24th at
9:41 AM, stating: "Did you get my last message? I didn't want to take
the computer to the repair shop without your approval."

So, if you want to withhold my refund and make me take this to an
Amazon dispute, be aware that Amazon has the records of our
communications which illustrate your lack of responsiveness and recent
lack of willingness to take responsibility.

===New Point #2===
On September 22nd at 9:08 PM I wrote "according to what I've found
online the 'disk error' could be due to something as simple as a loose
HDD connection inside the unit (as you said earlier, possibly jarred in
shipping). But I'll see what the repair shop says and report back to
you."

Funny you didn't take this opportunity to mention that the HDD was
installed relatively recently and WITHOUT being properly screwed in (as
per the repair shop. Again, please feel free to call them to verify
this as I will gladly ask Amazon to. 716-633-1088 job #3337)

===New Point #3===
As I stated before, the computer should reach you roughly on Wednesday.
However, it sounds like you'd like to withhold my refund and make us
both wait on an opinion from a second professional. I have to wonder
what the point of that is. I've already communicated to you quite
clearly that the computer had and has "massive ... issues" (Sept 21st,
2:57 PM). So when your professional finds these massive issues... I'm
curious how you expect that will absolve you of the responsibility?

===New Point #4===
In my original request for a refund I forgot to add the original
shipping cost.
Which means the accurate totals are:
$420.40 (purchase & 1st shipping) + $21.14 (2nd shipping) + $54.38
(repair - ONLY IF you felt like taking responsibility for the condition
of the computer. I have no way to enforce this and I understand that
perfectly.)
= $441.54 (no repair cost)
or
= $495.92 (with repair cost)

------

That's all for now. I know you said you hadn't received some of my
messages (even though that is inconsistent with your response in New
Point #1) but I can assure you Amazon will see that I sent them. In
addition, according to Amazon's Problems with Sellers information:
"Sellers are required to have valid e-mail addresses; sellers who do
not are violating our Participation Agreement and terms of service."
So I'm afraid ignorance won't be a valid excuse.

Please respond in a timely manner.

Sent: Monday, October 4, 2010 8:55 PM

Please be sure to read the 2nd (seemingly duplicate) message all the
way to the end. I spent so long writing it that my session timed out
and it cut off the last few paragraphs. Luckily, I'm making a backup
of all our communications - so I was able to simply cut & paste the
complete message.

Thank you,
~[Amazon Buyer]

Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 9:28 AM
To: [Amazon Buyer]

I received the HP and docking station this morning, I will take it to my computer repair
specialist today, as when I powered it up it does not display anything. He will advise me
on the matter and I will get back to you. I have no problem refunding your purchase price
and a fair price for shipping back to me, I must first make the determination that the
laptop was not damaged by you or your tech who probably opened up the laptop to
examine the motherboard, and if not done properly can cause damage to the laptop. I only
take these measures which I consider fair since the laptop was in perfect working order
prior to shipping to you. I will respond back to you in a few days, once my tech has done
his testing.

Regards
Mike

Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 9:57 AM

Why are you avoiding addressing my (many) points? They are pertinent
to this situation no matter who poorly they reflect on you.

If you refuse to address these points or take nearly 5 days to reply
this time, I will gladly begin the dispute process as I'd like my money
back. I shouldn't have to wait for YOUR interpretation of reality for
that to happen. You were the seller. You have to take responsibility.
By saying the HP could have been damaged in opening, you have a good
point - so maybe you should address the fact that you opened it up to
install a different hard drive. Or installed an OS that didn't
originally come with the computer.

Again, keep ignoring these facts and I'll simply begin the dispute
process IMMEDIATELY.

A-to-z Guarantee Claim Form: Claim Submitted

Your A-to-z Guarantee claim has been submitted. Most claims are
resolved within 14 days.

If the seller directly resolves your problem, or if the product
eventually arrives, please let us know by replying to the claim
confirmation e-mail we have just sent you.

Your A-to-z Claim
Order #: 102-4972106-5349850
Date filed: October 6, 2010
Expected resolution date: October 20, 2010
Item Details: 1 of HP Compaq Tablet PC tc4400 - Core 2 Duo T7200 / 2
GHz - RAM 2 GB - HDD 120 GB - GMA 950 - Gigabit Ethernet - WLAN :
802.11a/b/g, Bluetooth 2.0 EDR - T, ordered from Vegas Best Deals
Reason for claim: Order contained incorrect/defective/damaged items
- Item defective during first use

Claim Details: The fastest/easiest way for you to learn the entirety of
the situation would be to read our communications via Amazon's
messaging service. One-hundred percent of our communications have been
via that service. I have made an easy to follow documentation of our
exchanges and uploaded it to my webspace here:

[removed URL]

Please feel free to verify all text in that document against the
original messages that you should be able to view on your end.

I can also supply a scan of a receipt from a computer repair shop that
I had take a look at this item and confirm its defects. Just let me
know!

Thank you for your time & effort and I hope to hear from you very soon.

~[Amazon Buyer]

Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 11:02 AM

Mike-

Amazon says there is a refund on its way to me.

1. Is this coming from your bank account or theirs?

2. Is this because my Amazon dispute stepped in and enforced the
defective equipment or because your repair guy backed up my information?

I know replying isn't really your thing but, I'd appreciate some
answers. Especially since we're getting close to the 10-day maximum
allowance for seller responses. I'd still like to be able to leave
decent feedback at the end of all this if possible.

~[Amazon Buyer]

Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:10 PM
To: [Amazon Buyer]

I requested the refund and submitted it to Amazon. It is charged to my account with them,
but how they refund to you is up to them. My Technician indicated that he has concerns

with whomever opened the laptop and what they did. His concern is that the laptop was
working perfectly with no issues, in fact he had it running overnight as a final inspection
and testing. I sent to you a great laptop, and received back a non-working laptop. I am not
one to point fingers, but those are the facts in this case. Your refund sent by me is final. I
wish you good luck in finding a laptop that suits your needs.

Thank you

Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:03 PM

"My Technician indicated that he has concerns with whomever opened the
laptop and what they did."

So, I guess he should talk to you about that post-factory hard drive
and operating system?

"I sent to you a great laptop ..."

That's funny, aren't those supposed to work when you turn them on?

"I am not one to point fingers, but those are the facts in this case."

Actually, I sent you a laundry list of facts and you chose avoid
addressing any of them. Innocent people have nothing to hide.

Building off of that, are you willing to give me the name and phone
number of your technician? I was open enough to give you the
information for mine and I would love to speak to this individual about
the details of this case.

Thank you for your minimal cooperation. I will most likely take that
minimal effort as reason enough to not leave any feedback. Though your
unwillingness to accept responsibility would certainly merit a negative
response, I am not out to get you, so we'll just let bygones be bygones.

Again, I'm sorry things played out the way they did. I entered this
transaction with nothing but positive thoughts.

Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 2:24 PM

Once again, your silence is only incriminating =

Please simply tell me the name, company name, and phone number of the
technician you worked with and I will leave you be.

I'd really like to refrain from negative feedback but your lack of
cooperation isn't giving me much reason to.

Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 2:34 PM
To: [Amazon Buyer]

This issue is closed.

Amazon case x-x-5349850

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