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Missed Triggers II
Return of the Forgotten Ones
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
1
What is a Missed Trigger?
• Triggered Ability has to trigger
• Controlling player “forgets” it
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
2
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
3
When is a Trigger Forgotten?
•Target required
•Change in visible game state
•Choice required
•Rule-changing
•Non-visible effect
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
4
What is not a Missed Trigger?
• Trigger resolved partially or incorrectly
• Game got rushed past the Trigger
• Trigger that makes delayed trigger
• Trigger that makes copies
• Trigger without impact
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
5
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
6
What has changed?
• Missed delayed triggers
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
7
Remedy
Still depends on the situation
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
8
Possible Situations
1. Optional action
• You may
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
9
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
10
Optional action
• As a Player: try to remember next time
• As an Opponent: nothing
• As a Judge: nothing
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
11
Possible Situations
2. Mandatory Action
• Usually beneficial
• Usually detrimental
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
12
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 2nd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Oirschot
By Bemindt Jona – 25th November 2012
13
Beneficial mandatory trigger
•As a Player: try to remember next time
•As an Opponent: you can call a Judge
•As a Judge:
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
14
•Only if asked by Opponent
•Put ability in proper place, or
on bottom of stack
•No Warnings
Detrimental mandatory trigger
•As a Player: try to remember next time
•As an Opponent: you can call a Judge
•As a Judge:
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
15
•Issue a Warning
•Put ability in proper place, or
on bottom of stack if asked
Possible Situations
3. Default action
• If you don’t.../...unless
• Associated with choice made by controller
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
16
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
17
Default action
•As a Player: try to remember next time
•As an Opponent: you can call a Judge
•As a Judge:
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
18
•Issue a Warning
•Always resolve default action (2
possibilities)
•Everything still legal?
Possible Situations
4. Delayed Trigger
• Changes zone of an object
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
19
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
20
Default action
•As a Player: try to remember next time
•As an Opponent: you can call a Judge
•As a Judge:
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
21
•Issue a Warning?
•Always resolve default action (2
possibilities)
•Everything still legal?
Possible Situations
5. You don’t want to
•An ability you control triggers
•You know about the trigger
•You choose to ignore it
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
22
You don’t want to
•No longer a Missed Trigger
•Unsporting Conduct - Cheating
•Handle it as such
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
23
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
24
What about the opponent?
•Is never issued a Warning
•Can call a Judge:
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
25
•Duration of the effect has
not yet expired
OR
•Trigger was missed less than
a turn ago
Recapitulation
•Warnings for unintentionally missed
detrimental trigger
•Only intervene if:
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
26
•Called by the Opponent
•You want to issue a Warning
•You suspect Shenanigans
Philosophical Grounds
•Common and invisible
•Remember your own triggers
•Don’t have to play the game for your Opponent
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
27
Adventure Time!
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
28
Adventure I
•Neville controls a Battlewise Hoplite
•Albus attacks with a Nessian Asp
•Neville casts Savage Surge on the Hoplite
•Neville scries and puts the card on the bottom
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
29
Adventure I
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
30
Adventure I
•Both players are now tapped out
•Neville blocks with the Hoplite
•Albus says: “ok, so the Hoplite dies”
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
31
Adventure I
•Do you interfere?
•Infraction?
•Ruling?
•Penalties?
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
32
Adventure II
•Aragog controls a Desecration Demon
•Nagini has no creatures, but 4 land untapped
•Aragog says: “declare attack?”
•Nagini says: “sure!”
•Aragog attacks with the Demon
•Nagini calls the Judge
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
33
Adventure II
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
34
Adventure II
•Infraction?
•Ruling?
•Penalties?
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
35
Adventure III
•In Narcissa’s last turn, she casted Akroan Horse
an gave it to Arabella
•Arabella untaps, and draws a card
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
36
Adventure III
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
37
Adventure III
•Do you interfere?
•Infraction?
•Ruling?
•Penalties?
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
38
Questions?
Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt
By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013
39

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Missed triggers

  • 1. Missed Triggers II Return of the Forgotten Ones Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 1
  • 2. What is a Missed Trigger? • Triggered Ability has to trigger • Controlling player “forgets” it Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 2
  • 3. Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 3
  • 4. When is a Trigger Forgotten? •Target required •Change in visible game state •Choice required •Rule-changing •Non-visible effect Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 4
  • 5. What is not a Missed Trigger? • Trigger resolved partially or incorrectly • Game got rushed past the Trigger • Trigger that makes delayed trigger • Trigger that makes copies • Trigger without impact Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 5
  • 6. Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 6
  • 7. What has changed? • Missed delayed triggers Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 7
  • 8. Remedy Still depends on the situation Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 8
  • 9. Possible Situations 1. Optional action • You may Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 9
  • 10. Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 10
  • 11. Optional action • As a Player: try to remember next time • As an Opponent: nothing • As a Judge: nothing Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 11
  • 12. Possible Situations 2. Mandatory Action • Usually beneficial • Usually detrimental Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 12
  • 13. Seminar on Missed Triggers – 2nd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Oirschot By Bemindt Jona – 25th November 2012 13
  • 14. Beneficial mandatory trigger •As a Player: try to remember next time •As an Opponent: you can call a Judge •As a Judge: Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 14 •Only if asked by Opponent •Put ability in proper place, or on bottom of stack •No Warnings
  • 15. Detrimental mandatory trigger •As a Player: try to remember next time •As an Opponent: you can call a Judge •As a Judge: Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 15 •Issue a Warning •Put ability in proper place, or on bottom of stack if asked
  • 16. Possible Situations 3. Default action • If you don’t.../...unless • Associated with choice made by controller Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 16
  • 17. Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 17
  • 18. Default action •As a Player: try to remember next time •As an Opponent: you can call a Judge •As a Judge: Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 18 •Issue a Warning •Always resolve default action (2 possibilities) •Everything still legal?
  • 19. Possible Situations 4. Delayed Trigger • Changes zone of an object Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 19
  • 20. Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 20
  • 21. Default action •As a Player: try to remember next time •As an Opponent: you can call a Judge •As a Judge: Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 21 •Issue a Warning? •Always resolve default action (2 possibilities) •Everything still legal?
  • 22. Possible Situations 5. You don’t want to •An ability you control triggers •You know about the trigger •You choose to ignore it Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 22
  • 23. You don’t want to •No longer a Missed Trigger •Unsporting Conduct - Cheating •Handle it as such Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 23
  • 24. Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 24
  • 25. What about the opponent? •Is never issued a Warning •Can call a Judge: Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 25 •Duration of the effect has not yet expired OR •Trigger was missed less than a turn ago
  • 26. Recapitulation •Warnings for unintentionally missed detrimental trigger •Only intervene if: Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 26 •Called by the Opponent •You want to issue a Warning •You suspect Shenanigans
  • 27. Philosophical Grounds •Common and invisible •Remember your own triggers •Don’t have to play the game for your Opponent Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 27
  • 28. Adventure Time! Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 28
  • 29. Adventure I •Neville controls a Battlewise Hoplite •Albus attacks with a Nessian Asp •Neville casts Savage Surge on the Hoplite •Neville scries and puts the card on the bottom Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 29
  • 30. Adventure I Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 30
  • 31. Adventure I •Both players are now tapped out •Neville blocks with the Hoplite •Albus says: “ok, so the Hoplite dies” Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 31
  • 32. Adventure I •Do you interfere? •Infraction? •Ruling? •Penalties? Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 32
  • 33. Adventure II •Aragog controls a Desecration Demon •Nagini has no creatures, but 4 land untapped •Aragog says: “declare attack?” •Nagini says: “sure!” •Aragog attacks with the Demon •Nagini calls the Judge Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 33
  • 34. Adventure II Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 34
  • 35. Adventure II •Infraction? •Ruling? •Penalties? Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 35
  • 36. Adventure III •In Narcissa’s last turn, she casted Akroan Horse an gave it to Arabella •Arabella untaps, and draws a card Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 36
  • 37. Adventure III Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 37
  • 38. Adventure III •Do you interfere? •Infraction? •Ruling? •Penalties? Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 38
  • 39. Questions? Seminar on Missed Triggers – 3rd Annual BeNeLux Judge Conference – Overpelt By Bemindt Jona – 24th November 2013 39