1. VULNERABLE CONSUMERS
28 13 OCTOBER 2016 ∞ MARKETING WEEK
PageGroup, said: “The dream is
we can integrate and personalise
everything, and the conversations
go internally ‘we can try a bit and
see if it works’. We have spent the
time on phase one – putting in the
measurement infrastructure so
people can see ROI. Some of the
integration elements we wanted to
While timing is everything
when targeting customers
in the purchasing journey,
getting the corporate
culture right is the first
thing brands should do
The issue of accurately targeting
customers in the right purchasing
frame of mind is a hot topic, as the
debate at the Pegasystems/Adqura
roundtable hosted by Econsultancy
and Marketing Week proved.
From the challenges of standing
out in an overloaded inbox for B2B
prospects to wading through a
data swamp to understand the
needs of a vast and diverse B2C
audience, it was clear that brands
still face many challenges.
The panel agreed that before
they could discuss appropriate
points in the funnel for targeting,
there was the issue of corporate
culture to get straight first. Alex
Bates, UK marketing director at
By Morag Cuddeford Jones
Jo Allen
Business lead, next
generation decisioning
British Gas
Penny Allen
Head of marketing
The Go-Ahead
Group
Alex Bates
UK marketing
director
PageGroup
Robin Collyer
Marketing and
decisioning specialist
Pegasystems
Anna Fenten
Head of marketing
Levy Restaurants
Compass Group
Andrew Hogan
Global head of brand
strategy
Barclaycard
Jacqueline Hogarty
Head of brand
and marketing
Amec Foster
Wheeler
Sarah Hunter
Head of marketing
Mitie
Richard Ingram
Global head of brand
development and
innovation
SABMiller
Annette Kerlin
Directorofmarketing
andcustomer
experience, Adqura
Richard Palk
Head of online
consumer
communications
Sony Europe
Nigel Saxon
Senior digital
engagement
manager
LV
Stuart Wilson
Group director of
communication and
marketing
Mears Group plc
GETTINGTHE
TIMINGRIGHT
THE PANEL

2. MARKETING WEEK ∞ 13 OCTOBER 2016 29
SPONSORED BY PEGASYSTEMS/ADQURA
do would have been great to start
on earlier because they could have
been done quicker but being able
to say that we have a robust
structure that can gather data and
then react to that has been the
important thing to get buy-in.”
Adqura director of marketing
and customer experience Annette
Kerlin added: “Starting with a big
vision means you come unstuck.
Start small to get the benefits
quickly, get support, then get the
funding to do the rest. We started
by working on the data we thought
we could use. We created a
playpen, put it all in the cloud, put
data in from different sources and
got off the ground quickly. We had
a next best action six months in
from the start of the programme,
which is fast.”
The temptation, of course, is to
squeeze every last drop out of the
resources you have if you are
going to prove the next big bet to
the company. The panel agreed
that a selective approach was
“There’s lots of data but there
are huge gaps and strict rules
about how you contact
businesses. It’s challenging“
ANDREW HOGAN, BARCLAYCARD
Richard Ingram, global head of
brand development and innovation
at SABMiller, said: “We should be
looking at what our sense of
purpose and utility is and using our
data to deliver against it. We have
masses of consumer data – we
want to know as much as we can
about everybody, but half of it
might be completely irrelevant.
“We want to know which brands
are going to connect with which
consumers [so we can] target
directly and [build better
relationships]. Turning it on its head
and managing our databases in
that way, we have proven we drive
greater engagement by being
targeted with that data.”
Those complaining about the
abundance of first-party data they
have from selling direct to
consumer could be seen to be
grumbling from a position of grace
compared to those who are reliant
on third parties to complete the
transactional element. “One of my
favourite subjects is: whose
customer is it? We sell through
7,500 storefronts. It’s a
psychological issue in the
company. The customer is really
the retailer, while the customer I
want to communicate with is the
end customer,” added Ingram.
Relevant offering
The simple fact is that brands once
removed from the customer have
to work harder to remain relevant.
Kerlin at Adqura said: “At
GoCompare, we had people
coming to the site but buying direct
with the insurer. We didn’t know
who had bought from where and
[with whom we] had a relationship.
So the offering has to be relevant.”
She admitted they have been
looking at ways to start talking to
customers, including developing
real-time modelling and following
the journey through the site so
customers can be sent something
relevant in real time. “Email
becomes a mechanism to have a
conversation. It’s always interesting
how the outbound marketing and
website can come together and do
something personal.”
Nigel Saxon, senior digital
engagement manager at LV, is also
a fan of email but believes it is vital
to find a balance. “As important is
understanding our touchpoints
and that maybe it’s not the time to
do something. [Insurance is] a
grudge purchase so it is difficult to
know when the customer would
like us to talk to them.”
The challenge of data for
brands is threefold. There is the
abundance of data that creates the
potential for paralysis by analysis
and the potential to lose sight of
strategic end goals. Second, the
access to customer data when
faced with going through an
intermediary. Finally, being able to
tie all the necessary data together.
Companies are hampered by their
internal lack of competency or
regulatory hoops that protect the
consumer and, as Barclaycard
global head of brand strategy and
communications Andrew Hogan
said, in the case of multiple data
sources: “You’re playing with one
hand behind your back.”
He continued: “It’s the same
problem as: who is the customer?
Yes, there’s lots of data but there
are huge gaps and strict rules
about how you contact businesses.
It is a real challenge to get to the
same level of relationship building.”
Sony Europe head of online
consumer communications,
Richard Palk added: “It’s one of the
things that happens in regulated
industries. How much are you
allowed to combine data. We look
more effective. Sarah Hunter, head
of marketing at Mitie, said: “Making
it simple is key. We did bits of
personalisation but you need so
much motivation behind it to keep
it going and keep the data
up-to-date. It went off-piste and
turned into a beast.”
Pegasystems marketing and
decisioning specialist Robin
Collyer explained: “It is about
outcomes. How do you engage
with someone? Going back to the
minimum viable approach then
growing the relationship on
naturally is where we’re seeing the
most success with projects.”
In many respects, organisations’
access to data can be a blessing
and a curse. With real-time
targeting, executives were finding
that decision-making can be
hindered as so many strategies
need to be proven through data
even before execution. The trend
towards basing everything on the
stories the data is telling is making
brands myopic.

3. 30 13 OCTOBER 2016 ∞ MARKETING WEEK
SPONSORED BY PEGASYSTEMS/ADQURA
at what Google and Microsoft have
done in joining up customer facing
brands. We want to say that X is
the same person as Y but will the
EU let me do this?”
Operationally, brands face the
problem of getting everything
joined up. Despite the growing use
of cloud systems, legacy
technologies and departmental
silos left over from merger and
acquisition activity present logistical
and legal problems. Jacqueline
Hogarty, head of brand and
marketing at Amec Foster Wheeler,
said following the merger of Amec
and Foster Wheeler there were
many CRM systems. “While we’re
trying to get everyone onto
Microsoft Dynamics, we’re not sure
where to go from there. People
tend to have their own mailing lists
and spreadsheets. We need to look
at how we’re going to move
forward as a single brand.”
In B2B relationships, where it
could be assumed that relationships
are more personal and real time
because of the complexity of
conversations and smaller
customer bases, marketers are still
facing challenges. Hunter at Mitie
complained that B2B marketers are
having to jettison traditional
approaches owing to a lack of
efficacy: “Email is getting harder
because everyone is doing it.”
Perhaps email as a B2B medium
requires a rethink. Anna Fenten,
head of marketing at Levy
Restaurants, Compass Group, said
much depends on the target’s
existing engagement with the
brand. “This is where integrated
marketing comes into play. If you
know where the customer is in the
buying cycle and can send them
something they’re passionate
about, then they will open it.” But,
she added, this needs to be part of
a wider plan, supported by other
channels such as Twitter or apps.
Resonating emotionally is the
key whether it is selling widgets or
Wagner. The challenge is to get a
foot in the door. Stuart Wilson,
group director of communication
and marketing at Mears Group,
explained: “Most emails go into
spam. I have got brand loyalty to
certain things – an email about
Harley-Davidson will always get
opened. But it’s how you build that
loyalty. It turns into a chicken and
egg situation.”
Part of the real-time marketing
challenge and associated spam
problem is the sheer volume of
communication opportunities can
put off customers. Palk at Sony
Europe said: “We have got so
much insight that the skill is to
know when the next best action is
not to communicate. Leave
someone alone and quantify the
value of not engaging.”
The panel agreed it was about
understanding the needs of the
customer, not just in finding
opportunities to talk to them,
however targeted and contextual
that conversation might be. There
needs to be an understanding that
customers might make a high
value purchase and be engaged for
a while but after a while a light
touch is required.
If moderating contact
frequency is about maximising the
customer relationship, using data
responsibly is clearly table stakes.
Brands that pay lip service to good
data stewardship without following
through are as bad as those who
do not engage with it at all. “One
of the challenges I face is that if
the customer has unsubscribed
from something, they have said
clearly that they don’t want to hear
from me again,” Ingram at
SABMiller explained. “Can I say
confidently that I have fully wiped
their data? If something happens,
[a hack for example], can I prove to
the regulator that I’ve done what
I said I did?”
For some brands, the challenge
is getting enough data. Southern
Railways is facing an ongoing set
of customer relationship issues but
it is also suffering from a lack of
data to make the connections it
needs with customers. Penny
Allen, head of marketing at The
Go-Ahead Group, which owns
Southern Railways, said: “People
don’t want an emotional
relationship with their bus or train
company. We need to use data to
make sure that compensation for
delays is paid quicker. But 80% to
90% of [transactions are paid for]
by cash or card. We are in a
dangerous position that we could
“We have got so
much insight that the
skill is to know when
the next best action is
not to communicate“
RICHARD PARK, SONY EUROPE

4. MARKETING WEEK ∞ 13 OCTOBER 2016 31
make assumptions about customer
relationships on a base that is not
big enough.” She adds that the
introduction of Wi-Fi on-board will
go some way to boosting this
necessary data input.
Palk believes that social channels
are a rich source of information and
customer contact data for both
inbound and outbound contextual
communications. Allen at The
Go-Ahead Group agreed but noted
this whole area is a learning curve:
“Our teams operate autonomously
and the skill set isn’t there. There
isn’t a head of social for our brands
because we are such an
operationally-led industry.”
For many of the panel, engaging
in real-time marketing means
going back to basics first. Jo Allen,
business lead, next generation
decisioning at British Gas said:
“British Gas is starting from the
perspective that to drive
engagement you need to begin by
not being irrelevant. When people
move house, we shouldn’t be trying
to sell to them unless it’s relevant
to the house they’re moving into.”
Kerlin at Adqura said: “The
relationship with the customer is
a mutual value exchange. I want
good service. We need to help
businesses work out where their
moments of truth are – where in
the journey is the moment that
is important to the customer.
That’s where the sparkle dust
can be added to bring the brand
personality out.”
Wilson at Mears Group illustrated
this with an example from Transport
for London. Most Londoners have
to use the TfL infrastructure but
when something goes wrong, it is
communicated quickly, often with
humour and a lightness of touch. It
is not just a function, it’s an
experience. Barclaycard’s Hogan
added: “[Its] approach has changed.
Some train drivers think they’re
comedians, but there’s a brand tone
of voice behind it that resonates.”
Following a discussion of the
challenges facing marketers in
striking the right tone, frequency
and medium of communication, it
could seem as though there is a
mountain to climb. Add in
resistance to change from other
parts of the organisation and the
task can seem overwhelming. Allen
at British Gas said the answer is a
phased approach. “Start slowly,
build it but think about the end
goal all the time. With Adqura we
took steps to control the process
and buy ourselves credit with the
rest of the organisation. In the first
phase we increased conversion
20% in the first five and a half
months. That got us the credit to
move forwards and now 18
months on we have a tool that can
help us realise the business vision.”
Kerlin added: “You can’t tame
the beast in one go. If you build
the vision in the first phase, you’ll
fall over. Build the shell, plug in
the first part and show everyone
[in the organisation] how
great it is.”
“We should be
looking at what
our sense of
purpose and
utility is and
using data to
deliver against it“
RICHARD INGRAM, SABMILLER