Charles e Whisnant MMS for Sunday September 25, 2011 Rivers of Joy Baptist Church, MInford, Ohio

2. This is a description of a regenerated man, and not only a description of a regenerated man, but a description of a regenerated man always, even at his best. And Paul is describing himself as he is writing this book to the Romans.

4. Nevertheless we must try to discover what the Scripture is saying, because no system is perfect, and at particular points even the best system may have certain defects.

7. and that nonchristians unremittingly resist this obligation. These two points are perhaps most obviously set forth in Romans 1:18-32,where the Apostle Paul declares that God is clearly revealed in creation but that people suppress that revelation and worship creatures rather than the creator. <br />Despite the commonplace misconception that Van Til did not believe in “general revelation”–that God is revealed even to nonchristians in nature and history–Frame points out that Van Til strongly affirmed that God is clearly revealed to all people no matter what they claimed to the contrary. The problem is that all people practice self-deception. In looking at the world and themselves, nonchristians presuppose that the true God does not exist.<br />Van Til’s critique of nonchristian thought and his apologetic method made him also quite critical of other apologists. Van Til argued that the traditional proofs for God undermine the Christian method because they only show that God’s existence is probable. <br />Likewise, the historical evidence for Christianity, if presented in the traditional manner, proves only that Jesus might have risen from the dead. Not only is this short of the Gospel, but it doesn’t do justice to Paul’s assertion in Romans 1:18ff that all people know God. While Van Til said that the proofs could be presented in a better manner, and that there is nothing wrong with presenting historical evidence ,sooner or later one must deal with the unbeliever’s presupposition by which he interprets logic and history.<br />Here is what we will do with Romans 7:14-23 We will start like we usually do with a passage. We will adopt the inductive method and work up to a conclusion.<br />Vs. 14 Paul makes a opening general statement about the position and condition of the man described. <br />“WE KNOW THAT THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: BUT I AM CARNAL, SOLD UNDER SIN.”<br />Vs. 15 describes that position and condition as shown in practice and in daily life.<br />‘FOR THAT WHICH I DO I ALLOW NOT; FOR WHAT I WOULD, THAT DO I NOT; BUT WHAT I HATE , THAT DO IT.”<br />Vs. 16-17 contain two inferences or deductions that can be drawn about this man and his conduct. The first:”IF THEN I DO THAT WHICH I WOULD NOT, I CONSENT UNTO THE LAW THAT IT IS GOOD.” That would be a reasonable assumption. <br />But there is a second deduction: ‘NOW THEN IT IS NO MORE I THAT DO IT, BUT SIN THAT DWELLETH IN ME,.”<br />Vs. 18-20 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. <br />,,,,Paul gives a more complete exposition and explanation of has been said in verse 17<br />Vs 21 21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.<br />Paul gives another statement but at a somewhat deeper level. He adds to the statement in veree 14 in light of verse 18-20<br />Vs. 22 – 23 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. <br />Paul give further details about what has just been said in verse 21.<br />Vs 24 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”<br />Here is the cry of anguish, and at the same time the cry for deliverance that results from the realization that he is in the terrible position which he had been describing.<br />Vs 25 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”This begins with an out pouring of relief.<br />John MacArthur on the other hand writes...<br />Some interpreters believe that chapter 7 describes the carnal, or fleshly, Christian, one who is living on a very low level of spirituality. Many suggest that this person is a frustrated, legalistic Christian who attempts in his own power to please God by trying to live up to the Mosaic law. But the attitude expressed in chapter 7 is not typical of legalists, who tend to be self-satisfied with their fulfillment of the law. Most people are attracted to legalism in the first place because it offers the prospect of living up to God’s standards by one’s own power. <br />It seems rather that Paul is here describing the most spiritual and mature of Christians, who, the more they honestly measure themselves against God’s standards of righteousness the more they realize how much they fall short. The closer we get to God, the more we see our own sin. Thus it is immature, fleshly, and legalistic persons who tend to live under the illusion that they are spiritual and that they measure up well by God’s standards. The level of spiritual insight, brokenness, contrition, and humility that characterize the person depicted in Romans 7 are marks of a spiritual and mature believer, who before God has no trust in his own goodness and achievements.<br /> ( <br />“FOR WE KNOW 1492 THAT THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL:4152 <br />We know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Law is spiritual. The Law is not fleshly. Paul had just explained that the Law is holy and righteous and good. These facts are not question. The Law is divine, from God. The Law is a reflection of the character of God, which is holy, righteous, and good.<br />Paul is using a personalizing to express this position of the Law of God. Once a person has come to know Christ he knows that the Law is spiritual. The Law has come from God and there fore spiritual.<br />2 Corinthians 3:5-6 5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.”<br />The Law is spiritual in that sense. The Jews took a carnal view of the Law. Christian view the law not by the letter but by the spirit. The non spiritual view views the Law as with only external actions, not something that happens on the inside in the spirit. The spiritual view idea is Law is more concern with the motives, and desires, rather than the actions. The Law is spiritual that it brings life. “Do this, and thou shalt live.”<br />BUT I AM CARNAL,4559 SARKIKOS <br />Paul puts it out there at the very beginning. I am carnal. <br />Paul is saying “I am continually carnal. He is not talking of his past unsaved stated but his present state. He is talking about his physical flesh. The word means<br />Fleshly, carnal http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4559<br />having the nature of flesh, i.e. under the control of the animal appetites <br />governed by mere human nature not by the Spirit of God <br />having its seat in the animal nature or aroused by the animal nature <br />human: with the included idea of depravity.<br />It means man’s life as organized and lived apart from God and the power of the Holy Spirit in his life.<br />Vs. 5 5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Vs 6 6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.<br />A man who is in the flesh is under the law. So he says here, “I am carnal” fleshly. He does not mean that the flesh which remained in him was carnal, he does not say that there was something that was still within him which was carnal, he says that he himself is carnal. “I am carnal.”<br />The idea is not that he is not saved, but as a Christian not delivered from the power of the flesh. <br />1 Corinthians 3:1 “I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, butas unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? Paul is talking to the church.<br />Paul is describing the “carnal” person as one who is “a babe in Christ”, an immature Christian, a Christian who lacks fuller understanding. To you I could not give the meat of the Word. They were Christians who lack a good understanding, they are babes in Christ. They were acting like they were still in the flesh.<br />They were still thinking in the old way in which they used to think before they became spiritual.<br />Some are “carnal’ some are “spiritual” that is they have the mind of Christ. Two types ofChristians those who can and those who can’t take spiritual teaching.<br />Well, then does Paul mean that he was not mature? Is he saying that he is “a babe in Christ”? Is he saying that he could not take spiritual teaching? I don’t think so.<br />I would say he at this point in time is a well mature man in Christ He is most likely the most fully developed as a Christian as anyone could possibly be in this life, and in this world. Wouldn’t you say? <br />“But I” who is this? He is someone who is “carnal.” Who is someone who is “carnal?<br />Would it be a portrayal of a Christian person who has matured as much as it is possible for a Christian to mature and to develop while he is alive on this world?<br /> SOLD UNDER SIN.”<br />“I am under sin.” What does that mean? (next week or not) <br />KEEP ON LISTENING EVEN WHEN YOU THINK YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO<br />You are saying what are you saying Pastor-Teacher? I know when I was in Seminary in Dr. George Norris class, I was listening to the lectures on the subject of Theology, I realized after hearing him speak not only did I feel I knew nothing of what he was speaking, but I felt I would never be able to understand a think we was saying.<br />But I am glad I keep on listening to him for the rest of the year and the next year.<br />I can tell you if you keep on listening, and keep on listening, you will begin to find that more than yo had even realized is sinking and seeping in, and you will wake up one of these day and say,. “I got it, I see what it is about, I am beginning to understand.” <br />If you are not there yet, KEPP ON LISTENING.<br />Do not impatient with yourself when you are studying a difficult passage in Scripture, keep on, hold on, reading or listening and suddenly you will find yourself not only do you know much more than you thought you knew, but you will be able to follow and to understand.<br />REMEMBER THIS, DON’T LET THE DEVIL SAY TO YOU, “You are not a theologican.” Say, “I am in this Christian family, and I intend to listen and to read until I do understand it. If you do that you will not only defeat th4e enemy, but you will soon find that you have an understand. <br />And that is exactly what happen in Theology 101, 201, 301,and 401 and 501. <br />Okay back to Romans 7:14<br />So Paul is saying, If the Law is spiritual, where does the trouble come from? What is wrong? Why are things as they are in my life? <br />I am carnal, and sold under sin, Paul says.<br />What does this mean? Is this a born again Christian in view here?<br />There is no word in the Greek for “bondage” “sold”<br />Here is the Greek: <br />We know for that the law spiritual is, I, but fleshly (idem) am, having been sold 4097 piprasko) under the sin.<br />The term means: I am “sold into a condition of slavery to sin, that I am “a slave” to sin.<br />Paul uses the term “sold” means to be sold to sin., thus becoming its slave. “they had been sold and remained under the dominion of sin. A.T. Robinson paraphrases the perfect tense of sold picturing Sin as a banker who has foreclosed: “Sin has closed the mortgage and owns its slave.”<br />And the question comes up naturally is how can a genuine believer be “permanently” under the power of sin? That is the question.<br />I am “a slave” to sin” That is the actual words of Paul” If sin is the master and I am the slave, <br />What is he saying? He did not say he sold himself in to slavery. What he does say is that we are in this condition of slavery. He said he is under the supremacy of sin.<br />So if this statement by Paul is about him and Christians, how is it possible for a Christian to be carnal, fleshly and a slave of sin? Is this the description whom Paul is describing.<br />Paul is saying I am sold under sin. It is a statement about the man as a whole.<br />So we need to ask ourselves again, TO WHOM IS SUCH A STATEMENT ADDRESSING?<br />This person could not be one who had not been saved. Why? First the unsaved person does not understand the nature of the LAW. The unsaved person does not know that the Law is spiritual. And the unsaved person does not know he is fleshly or carnal.<br />The unsaved person does know he has been sold into slavery to SIN. Of course that is the problem with the lost person.<br />ggggg<br />D<br />