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Richard (Rick) Schumacher, CFE, is an established interview and interrogation consultant. Prior to that he spent 10 years as a US Army Special Operator in the Middle East during both Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom where he conducted Information Operations and Psychological Operation campaigns with the goal of eliminating miscommunication between Coalition Forces and native audiences. Rick perfected his investigative skills while combatting potential insurgents, where he led investigations and interviews. For the last eight years he has also been a criminal investigator for the state of Texas and is a specialist in interpersonal and intercultural communication. He is also an instructor on interviewing techniques and effective communications.Brian Fox, CPA, MBA, is the creator of Electronic Confirmations, receiving the first two patents granted on electronic audit confirmations. He founded Capital Confirmation, Inc. and Confirmation.com, now used by all of the Top 10 Banks and by more than 60,000 accountants in 100 countries. Brian is a four-time winner of the accounting profession’s “Top 40 Under 40 CPA in America,” was named as an “Entrepreneur of the Year” in Nashville. Brian previously worked in audit for Ernst & Young LLP and in mergers and acquisitions for PriceWaterhouseCoopers
Investigation Interviews: Building Rapport
Building Rapport in Investigation InterviewsRichard Schumacher, CFE Brian Fox, CPA, MBA
Introduction Richard Schumacher, CFE Richard (Rick) Schumacher, CFE, is an established interview and interrogation consultant. Prior to that he spent 10 years as a US Army Special Operator in the Middle East during both Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom where he conducted Information Operations and Psychological Operation campaigns with the goal of eliminating miscommunication between Coalition Forces and native audiences. Brian Fox, CPA, MBA Brian Fox, CPA, MBA, is the creator of Electronic Confirmations, receiving the first two patents granted on electronic audit confirmations. He founded Capital Confirmation, Inc. and Confirmation.com, now used by all of the Top 10 Banks and by more than 60,000 accountants in 100 countries. Joe Gerard Joe Gerard is the VP of Sales & Marketing at i-Sight, a leading provider of web-based case management software for corporate investigations. He’s worked with companies like Dell, Coke, Allstate, BP and more than 100 others to implement improved investigative processes that leverage best practices and case management.
Agenda• Importance of Building Rapport in Investigation Interviews• Effective Ways for Building Rapport• Real World Examples of Building Rapport• Questions
Poll Question 1How would you rate your rapport-building skills at the moment?• Excellent, I never have trouble building rapport with subjects• Pretty good, I usually develop good rapport with subjects• Fair, I sometimes develop good rapport with interview subjects• Poor, I have difficulty building rapport with those I interview
Importance of Building Rapport inInvestigation Interviews• Builds trust and credibility• Enables true communication• Helps obtain relevant information
Two Effective Ways to Build Rapport• Mirroring• Developing Shared Experiences
Two Effective Ways to Build RapportMirroring• Is a simple and subtle method of shared tempo.• Should be employed subtly, and not overtly copying someone’s behavior and mannerisms.• Ability to identify with an individual’s mental state.• Active listening is crucial.• Can open up potential information flow.
Two Effective Ways to Build Rapport Mirroring continued • Seek to understand the emotive state of each person you are going to interview. • Research the individual prior to meeting with them. - In-depth background history including interviews with associates and prior contacts. - Reviewing an employment application. • Understand that they may be nervous and potentially uncooperative.
Two Effective Ways to Build RapportShared Experiences• Interviewer might speak about the traffic congestion on the way into work or some other experience that the interviewee shares.• This will help relax both participants and act as a building block of communication.• Talk about a common subject. This would enable unrestricted, reciprocal exchange of dialogue, wherein the interviewer reveals: - Personal information - Facts - Sentiments - Interpretations
Two Effective Ways to Build RapportShared Experiences continued• Interviews must understand the interviewee’s needs and characteristics.• Interviewers should gauge the receptiveness of the interviewee to determine level of comfort gained by rapport building techniques.
Two Effective Ways to Build RapportConstant Assessment and Adjustment• Gauge the interviewee’s responses to your actions and questions, and then make subtle adjustments to build and maintain rapport.• Establishing baseline rapport allows you to subtly direct the conversation.• Enables truthful answers from the interviewee.• Eliminates unnecessary hurdles of distrust and emotionally charged behavior.
Poll Question 2Which do you find to be the most difficult aspect of conducting workplaceinvestigation interviews?• Getting subjects to talk openly• Determining whether subjects are being truthful• Remaining objective during the interview• Completing investigation interview reports• Coming up with the right questions
Real World Examples of Building RapportReal-World Example One: MirroringSettingIn a primitive detention facility in northern Iraq.ObjectiveTo determine the organizational structure of an insurgent cell involvedin a psychological warfare campaign.DressIt was important to dress similar to how the insurgent prisoner wasdressed without looking like I was mimicking him. I did not wear myuniform but wore a loose fitting shirt jeans and hiking boots. Byappearing in relaxed clothing I was more similar to the detainee andset apart from the military personnel he had been dealing with.
Real World Examples of Building RapportReal-World Example One: Mirroring continuedHow it was usedThe intention of this was to create a situation where thedetainee felt like I was more similar to him and moreseparate from the military.Culturally, Iraqis are inclined to be very close whiletalking. Their personal space is much less pronounced.As I sat down with detainee, I let him lead the show.When he leaned back I leaned back. Not abruptly, butover the span of a few minutes I was able to ease intoa similar body language of the detainee.The intent was to influence our conversation by creatinga team of the detainee and me whose purpose was tofix a common problem. This is engineered to lead to asense of security and a more willing and honestparticipant.
Real World Examples of Building RapportReal-World Example Two: Shared ExperiencesBackgroundDuring the same detainee interview, where I used the mirroringbehavior technique, I also used shared experiences.At first it might seem difficult to come up with sharedexperiences between a US soldier and an Iraqi insurgent, but itwasn’t.How it was usedWe spoke about the wish that we both had to be home. Wewere able to find common ground in the need for security inIraq – of course we came from vastly different paths to reachthat security.
Real World Examples of Building RapportReal-World Example Two: Shared Experiences continuedHow it was used continuedFinally, we were able to reach common ground on thefact that neither of us much cared for the big shots thathad landed us in our current sorry situation. Ofcourse, his “big shots” were the same ones I wastargeting and was hoping to collect information on.Through the use of seemingly unadulteratedconversation, I was able to develop a rapport with thisdetainee and get him to discuss our commonenemy, our bosses. I was able to collect valuableinformation regarding the nature of an ongoingpsychological warfare campaign that was aimed toincrease hostility in the region.
Poll Question 3Which scenario would you find the most difficult to handle?• The interviewee breaks into tears• The interviewee refuses to talk• The interviewee shows anger• The interviewee is clearly lying
Real World Examples of Building RapportReal-World Example Three: MirroringSettingA financial audit of a Fortune 500 public company.ObjectiveInterview employees to gather information about the company’sinternal controls and fraud risks as part of its financial audit.How it was usedAn auditor interviewed an AR supervisor who manages the day-to-dayAR operations for the company. The auditor was sitting at the head ofthe table and the AR supervisor was to his left. The auditor wantedhim to feel comfortable during the interview, but noticed that thesupervisor’s posture was very straight, his right foot out further thanhis left, and his hands were on the table.
Real World Examples of Building RapportReal-World Example Three: Mirroring continuedHow it was used continuedWhile the supervisor responded to the auditor’s general questions, theauditor repositioned his posture similar to the supervisor, includingmoving his right foot back so that the left foot was out front. As theauditor continued to ask questions about the AR department, thesupervisor crossed his left leg over his right, and leaned forward.After about 30 seconds, the auditor crossed his right leg over the leftone, and also leaned forward while taking notes. The auditor thennoticed that the supervisor’s palms turned slightly upward and heappeared more relaxed. Then the auditor felt it was the right time toask the supervisor “What internal control problems do you have in yourdepartment regarding cash receipts?”
Real World Examples of Building RapportReal-World Example Three: Mirroring continuedHow it was used continuedHe shared with the auditor that his department wasunderstaffed and that there were some checks andbalances not in place that should be.OutcomeThe auditor was able to gather enough informationfrom other employee interviews to verify this internalcontrol issue. In the auditor’s audit report, heoutlined the issue, his recommendation and nextsteps for the audit committee.In the auditor’s subsequent audit the followingyear, the company showed that new procedures wereimplemented to address this internal control issue.
Real World Examples of Building RapportReal-World Example Four: Shared ExperiencesSettingA charity administrative office.BackgroundA finance committee member for a local charity noticed somediscrepancies between the bank statements and the generalledger. The finance committee member decided to interviewthe two people who were authorized to make bank deposits forthe charity.
Real World Examples of Building RapportReal-World Example Four: Shared Experiences continuedPreparing for the interviewWhile gathering information for each interview, the financemember learned that the husband of one of the interviewee’shad lost his job 9 months earlier.How it was usedAt the beginning of the interview, the finance member asked theinterviewee general questions about how long she had lived inthe area, activities her children were involved in, etc. They bothstarted talking about family. The finance member shared withher that his bother had lost his job 7 months earlier and howdifficult it was watching his brother’s family go through thestress of lost income.
Real World Examples of Building RapportReal-World Example Four: Shared Experiences continuedHow it was used continuedThe interviewee said she understood because herhusband had lost his job 9 months earlier.The finance member told her the reason for theinterview, about the discrepancies, and that it wasimportant to figure out why because the charityprovided a much needed service to the community.OutcomeShe did confess to taking the missing funds. As aresult, she went through counseling, and set up apayment plan to repay the funds.
Poll Question 4What tools are you most interested in for developing your investigationskills? (Choose one)• Webinars• Guides• Cheat sheets• Courses• Infographics
Questions? If you have any questions, please submit them now. Thank you for taking the time to attend today’s webinar. If you have any questions about the information covered in the webinar, please contact: Brian Fox Rick SchumacherBrian.Fox@confirmation.com firstname.lastname@example.org Joe Gerard email@example.com