true

1. ARI
So now I’m speaking with Philip McKernan, and I met Philip at the mastermind talks in
Canada about a month or two ago and we only spoke for a few minutes but he gave a talk that I
just found to be incredibly inspiring and moving in a number of different ways and so I guess
without really giving you a label, so apologies, will you please just talk about what you do with
people. You talk a lot about authentic personal growth that's what you were telling me when we
actually sit one-on-one and I didn’t really know what that meant, honestly when you said it, then
you got up and talk and the stories that you told in the emotion that comes from your end and I
honestly I guess the authenticity that comes when you talk is so apparent, how did you get into
doing this.
PHILIP
Yeah I mean by accident, I think there's one thing that I can truly say for the work that I do is I
never said I would be intention of creating the business that I'm in right now for monitoring
game and it was in some strategic plan, I think that's one of the sad things about the different
thing you know tons of gift and am not going to tell you and sit here and stand here and say
listen I have a gift and that certainly the word clients of mine would use in the past but it is not
for me to say but I think sometimes we would sit back and look at our talents and what we were
brought up around what we were told our talents are and therefore we create a marketing plan or
strategy or a business around that, for me what I do with people now it's just happen by accident,
I mean if you talk to my mother she might say she might disagree with that, she might say I have
been doing that all my life and kind of an indirect way, she would lovingly describe me as being
always a little bit difference and it was a tough time in my life right now hoping to moving
forward that I should embrace that I love oddness, I think everyone is odd and my mother thinks
we spent a lot of our life’s trying to suppress the oddness and trying to fit in and I think what we
do is we lose ourselves in that, getting back to your question, I think it started by accident and I
suppose the first time or is it the third time, on each occasion I go standing ovation when I spoke
which was quite honestly scared the shit out of me, just as startling with a best man speech, I
mean that’s when I started to become kind of more publicly, you know can of domain but what I
do what I stand for what I believe in and so best man speech by accident and I just morphed from
there.
ARI
That’s funny because best man speech was one of those things where I feel like when someone
was asked to do a beta credit or the very excited about it and if they excited about it, they very
quickly come to dread it.
PHILIP

2. Yeah I mean I wouldn't say I was excited about it, definitely the dread came, and in fact every
time I speak I don't dread it I get nervous and despite what people may feel from the stage are
what people might assumes from the stage, I pretty much want to vomit every time I get on stage
whether sat two people or 2000 people and I think that’s because of two things, I think it’s a
natural concern of caring and wanting to make an impact and also I never have done the same
keynote twice, I always mix a lot of crates and edges of nervousness lighting shows that it
matters to me and so I think it's a healthy thing, but it's a lot of you try to avoid that natural state
of fear and concern and anxiety when actual fact if they embrace it and lean into it often, that's
where some of the most insightful magic comes from.
ARI
So okay, that's a good explanation, what kind of work do you do with people you know and I
mean you know you are helping people with personal growth, but what does that look like, what
is the process sort of?
PHILIP
They process is different for everybody and I jokingly say you know people even client who
work with me find it very difficult to at least get one line description of what I do, so people just
say personal growth, other people say mentoring, other people say coaching some people say
business coaching, but in a very indirect way so for example if someone wants to increase the
revenue and drive the business and they want to come to me to help them do that, I really have
no interest unless they're prepared to have the personal conversation, so if they are prepared to
have a personal conversation the things that often get in the way which is that personal stuff and
then undeadening the person, but if they're just looking to work in the business and drive their
business another guy they can go to a traditional business coaching focus on the business and
nothing other than the business and I'm probably might do a very good job as well but so what I
do is that I'm after people's truths and I'm after who they really are, the core and you think about
something that we often hear as well if I just knew, if I just got clearly what I want to do I go for
it, if I knew what I want then I will be happy that most of us focus obsessed about the future and
then we don't stop and look back in our lives and say, why am I the way I am today what created
the behaviors of me, the instincts that I have today, about what created me why do I find myself
in this position, in this relationship, in his job, in this geographic location doing this work, what
is that about, and if you understand who you are at the level that we suspect most people never
do, who you are and what you're therefore meant to do and your passions all those things at the
end of your nose, so the understanding status and then what we do is we search for the meaning,
we search and we uncover and we dig and we find meaning where it didn't exist.
ARI
What if what you find is, I'm assuming sometimes what you finding is not really wonderful,
there is going to be some bad stuff that people end up turning up to, right?

3. PHILIP
Everybody's got a shot of light to the life, you know whether it's very dark or likely dark, but
everybody has got a shot of light. And it's something that we shy away from and I say okay,
what’s the point focusing on the negative, well number one is, it’s not always negative, because
it's how you perceive it, but when you shine a light on that negative part of your life, that piece
of your life that you've gone through and other piece of your life that you are not in touch with,
whether it's anger whether it's fear, whatever happens to be. What happens is it loosens its grip
on it, it doesn't become as insurmountable as it once was and therefore it doesn't dictate your life
it doesn't hold you, it doesn't drive you at a very negative level, so if you get to know that piece
you can start to embrace it, it starts to free you and then what happens is this, it’s really the
unusual thing happens inside us as we start to believe in ourselves, we start to put value on
ourselves, we start to believe not just that we can do something, but actual fact we deserved to
do, we deserve to be happy, we deserve to have good relations, we deserve to do work that
fulfills us, and when that happens a fundamental real shift in value, everything shifts, because I
have another saying, something I absolutely would go to my grave believing, is that we as human
beings give ourselves what we feel we deserve, and if we do not think we are a good person deep
down, that is going to show up in our lives, there is no getting away from that, because when you
give yourself the types to results in life that you feel you deserve deep down, the problem is that
most people walk around going no I am confident, no I am happy, I already dealt with all my
stuffs, no I know who I am, am talking to a brain or head, a mind, and that’s why I believe that
mindset is completely overrated, mindset support but not that intellectual thought process, but let
me describe it in a different way, if you have somebody who's overweight, let’s just put a
person who is overweight are underweight for that matter and they are down on themselves and
they have a very poor physical recitations of themselves, they don't particularly like themselves
and you have a 11 million people line up and every single person looks up and say you are not
overweight and by the way you are beautiful, but the millionth person they might start actually
thinking they're not overweight, they might actually start saying maybe I am overweight, maybe
I am beautiful, but the following morning when they wake up and they look in the mirror, they
feel ugly again, if they previously have felt bad, because that’s the defeating mindset of what I've
dubbed soulfulness and one is moving and trying to be just positive thinking and the other one is
fundamentally shifting and motioning how you feel and therefore your thoughts after it.
I think we got it the wrong way around and that’s just the personal belief.
ARI
I think that makes a lot of sense and you have people who can actually be confident, do you
know how many celebrities are you depressed and the people who are possibly had fans and

4. being told that they are amazing and being chased after, but there's still depressed and lonely,
that makes total sense.
PHILIP
I believe I have been on Facebook, but I don't read newspapers, so Facebook is my channel to
the news world and if the past way and potentially commit suicide in the last 24 or 48 hours and
another great example, I mean I think again the sadness I don’t know about you, I certainly was a
fan of somebody in the movies and I really walked to the guy from a professional standpoint, but
obviously there was a dark side in there and it eventually just got the best of them but I wonder
and I'm not here to say whether he did or he didn't, I just wondered what he did was some of
those deeper inner demons that have been haunting him for some time enough in his life and but
when you're surrounded by people who are telling you are great, telling you, you are funny and
telling you, you are fantastic, you go on to pedestal ad, you to start to believe that they are all
saying hi and often very lonely up there.
ARI
Right course security solutions since you are obviously uncovering a lot of demons and covering
some of the shadows and obviously a lot of good stuffs comes out of it too, but is there sort of
way on you or do you sort of look at that as a journey or discovery or is there, that has to be hard
sometimes for you.
PHILIP
You are the first person in an interview situations that actually addressed that, it is hugely hard
on me and there is no getting away with that, there is a very significant emotional price I pay
with the work I do and by the way I'm glad you pointed that out it’s also a lot of very good stuffs
that sometimes you need face the sliding darker side, the blocks that get in peoples way in order
to actually get to the magic if you like and the magic is what keeps me going, when you know if
I get a client and by the way just so to be clear, there is an obsession the world making money
and obsession with moving on in life and succeeding from a financial standpoint, people often
feel that they won't be or can’t be happy deep down unless they have enough money, but most of
our clients and I need some substantial numbers of our clients are reporting like crazy increases
in income, businesses are exploding, but they did the personal work first and then the money and
that success and that fluency and that flow in life that's about to kick in, the reason I'm bringing
that up is that, if someone emailed and said listen I turnover an extra million dollars last year I
made an extra hundred thousand dollars, I made an extra $10,000 and I get pretty much very
little cake from that, but what keeps me going is when I get a letter from someone saying, I've
never been in a better place in my soul, I've never been a better place, I really have peace of
mind, am sleeping like I've never slept before, my wife and myself, my husband and myself are

5. connected, I often have this statement like, I thought I had a great relationship and then I start to
realize my start look at you wasn't as good as it could be, now that’s sad sometimes but, then you
notice something not 100% unless you have this potential to change it, so yes there is a huge
price for me to do this work and I'm absolutely know that for certain, but is it worth it, I believe
this is why I'm here, this is why I'm on the start to do the work that I do, I absolutely believe that
to the core.
ARI
And you have to be able to handle that and I have not had these experiences that you have had in
terms of coaching people that kind of stuffs, but I have seen issues and I have seen people come
up with things that I never expected to, in a bad way sometimes and it is very hard to not sure
sort of take that on yourself and the other thing, one of the reasons that I asked you that is one of
the questions that I want to ask you about in this interview is sort of what your daily routine
looks like, what your morning routine looks like, because it’s something that I find interesting
lately but before you answer it, it’s a kind of thing that I'd love to have this perfect morning
routine that I do sometimes and I recommended to a lot of people but even in my life I'm not able
to do it a lot, even though I'd like to and so you know as much as you can say these stuffs
sometimes it's harder to live it yourself.
PHILIP
Yeah I don't have a morning routine, I just don’t, the best way I can answer this is, it’s great that
you didn’t send me a list of questions and stuffs in advance, that's what I love I don't like getting
questions in advance, I love just having this conversations flow and sometimes now the case may
be its just a bit more natural and I remember going to conference many years ago on hearing this
buzz about meditation, I was even going on the meditation and this is what I interpreted myself
and maybe a little bit of what he said as well, I usually meditating you know the lights are out
games over, you are not really going to succeed and it drove me insane but I basically left
meditation and might come back to it my own slide way, I probably meditate once a month,
maybe twice a month depending on what’s going on in my life.
I meditate when I feel like it’s the right time for me and my body saying no do it and I have
absolutely no morning routine and yet I go to the gym during week, I absolutely do, do I run
during the week, yes I do, I don't have these rituals that are carved in stone and that I think a lot
of people have in place and I often think they almost take up a lot of energy, they are very
mentally driven, they are not necessary always authentic, it's what people have read about and
what works for somebody, so for example in the world is consumed and overrun with the top 10
things you should do in the morning or the top three things you should do in the morning and
recently I read an article about you know what the top 10 famous people have for breakfast, who
gives a shit what is people are eating for breakfast, yes if he’s eating healthy food and so on and
he has whole approach to living healthy and greater energy and greater longevity and all like

6. fine, but do you honestly believe people that will read that usually start eating granola, they'll
think in some form if they are doing the habits and the rituals that he's doing that they might in
order they might actually in some way get the success that he gets and I just found out its
actually quite bizarre as opposed to really stopping and looking at your own life and really
respecting you and just saying, okay this morning routine is not working for me, if am not
getting to it, why am I not getting into it, maybe this is not just for me, maybe am not built like
that.
So I just don’t have a routine.
ARI
That’s totally fine, I actually think that’s a very good answer, so obviously you are husband and
a father also.
PHILIP
Correct.
ARI
And how does your work and how is the experience you have answer to you as a father?
PHILIP
For some reason when you stand on a stage and I think it's sad if people think your something
that you're not, they automatically put one and one together, they don’t come up with five, they
come up with 995 and the assume that you are the perfect father, you know you've discussed
incredible, I built a really cool life, I'm sitting in a beautiful large right now called Dun bag, on
the west coast of Ireland in the middle of nowhere, my family are kicking a soccer ball, and I'm
taking two months.
ARI
I actually know Dun bag, I have actually played golf there, and it’s one of the most beautiful
places on Earth.
PHILIP
So am sitting in Dun bag right now, I'm looking at a beautiful garden, behind me is the ocean and
that I do this because I'm not about money and if you get to know me, you know that is not just
something I say, it's absolutely fundamentally the court I am, sometimes preside detriment, some
would say but I don't agree with that, so as a father I think you know my kids will look back and
I suppose to me I want is on my deathbed whatever my children are there hopefully there, you
know looking at me and you know as I pass away hopefully many years from now, that they look

7. and say maybe he wasn’t the wealthiest guy in the world, maybe he wasn't usually focused in
terms of building assets and everything else, but at the end of the day, he was sad to believe that
that he was always there, always there for me, he was always present, he was at all my soccer
games and everything else. And that’s the kind of father that I want to be, you know I am not a
perfect father, I'm definitely not and am learning and I think probably the that the best thing I can
do for my kids is to never assume am a great father, because I think when you start to allow
yourself to believe at falsely sometimes that you're really at a good place with your parenting, I
think you become complacent and them I have to really watch that, but ultimately what am
saying there is that I want my kids to say that I was present, that I was with them, that when I
was by their side, that I was there with them, that I take their hands and I look into their eyes and
I speak to them like a human being, I speak to their souls, I hear them, I listened to them, I give
them choices as opposed to sitting here either on my blackberry, iPhone, I'm sitting there and am
a bit distant because I'm thinking about other things that are on my mind, so I think that's what I
want.
ARI
Well you just spoke into my soul, because literally every word of the answer to that question
resilient with me so much and honestly but I have three sons who are very young, my biggest
fear in life honestly is to fail as a father and I don't think that I'm the most amazing father, I try
very hard to be a great father as much as I can, but I agree with you to have considered to have
been present, to me it’s so important.
PHILIP
Absolutely thank you for saying that, I can just feel, I can feel that on the phone too and if I may
and I don't want to turn this on you because I just want to be respectful and so on and so forth, if
I may just expand a little bit on what you said, it’s in your own time and it’s not often necessary
now, I really appreciate it and honestly when I was listening to you, there is a sense of honesty
and authenticity that you have and you are prepared to share that, you know that fear and so on, I
just love that, that’s missing in the word today a lot, the one that's for anybody let’s just
depersonalize a bit, is there anybody whose fear of failure or fear of injury and what we
ultimately need to happen in order for you to feeling you're not a failure and again is not you're
necessary but what I find is people are often so hard and says deep down work hard there is such
high expectations and when you have that, no matter what you achieve as a father might not be
enough and so therefore you almost destined to fail, that’s one thing about being the perfect
parent and we all say in our heads, we all kind of fundamentally agree with that, but that doesn't
stop us necessarily attempting to be the and trying to be the perfect parent and trying to make
sure that we are the best we can be. Yeah the beautiful thing as obnoxious as outrageous it
sounds is, no matter what you do as a parent, no matter how good you believe are trying to
become, no matter how perfect you can be and how many books you read, you are going to
excuse that the obnoxiousness of this, but you are going to fuck your kids up because the reality
is no matter what you do as a parent, 20, 30, 40 years from now, your kids are going to look back

8. and there is going to be something that you did or didn't do that has negatively impacted them in
some capacity, now why would I say something almost so ridiculous and why would I say it in a
kind of obnoxious way, I do that intentionally because I think sometimes people tiptoe around
the issue and they don’t say it as it is and if you can let go a little bit of trying to create this
perfect bubble for our children, let go and say no matter what I do, it’s not going to be enough
anyway completely, I think what it does is, it just takes the pressure off and allows you the
freedom to parent maybe a way that’s less fair base than ordinary and I think those two things are
very prevalent in parenting today, in other words expectations on oneself, so no matter what you
do, it’s never going to be enough and this other thing is trying to be perfect, the final piece on
parenting I know that's not necessary what you want to talk today is, every parent in my personal
opinion has a moral obligation to work on their stuff, to dig deep understanding who they are
because no matter what you do, even if you don't speak to your kids every day, you are going to
pass on your past to them irrespective of what you want to or not and I think we understand who
we are, the core were better equipped to being parents.
ARI
I think that’s actually an excellent point, but you know with three young boys and when I say
young boys, I have a two and a half old and twins, three very young boys, our house is crazy a
lot of the time, so it's very hard in the moment sometimes to know if you're doing the right thing,
but again it's yeah, I agree but by working on yourself you can do the best you can and that’s
really what we can strive for.
PHILIP
Absolutely.
ARI
So what is your biggest fear?
PHILIP
My biggest fear is that I put on a pedestal and on I lose myself in that, like so many people in a
public domain or public position often do, and what I mean by that is, this is a bit of strange one
and because despite what people say, people love the Eagle piece, they love the attention on
stage, they love that whole thing and what people come up to and if you do a good job or you are
an author or you have written a book or whatever happens to be and incase of TV stars or movie
stars, you know they love it initially, but what ends up happening is that you are shoulder to
shoulder with every other human being in the world and then what happens is people start
putting you on a pedestal, two things happen.
(1)They put you on a pedestal.

9. (2)You are hilarious.
So that’s the two things that happen and you start get elevated and you start to become
something, you start to look around left and right and you are going up a pyramid, you looked
left and right, there is less and less people right and left of you, and finally if you hit the top of
the pyramid, you looked left and right of you and there is actually no one around, so you are
isolated and you are lonely and you start to believe you have all the answers, you tell all the
answers because these people are looking up to you and that will definitely be a fear of mind, I
mean my clients, I believe give me way too much credit for the work they do and some of them
idolize me and say things like you are my God, like without you my life wont have been
whatever and made is true maybe it's not, but I always put it back on them and if you ask any
client that I've ever worked with, I would put it straight back at them straight you did, you did it,
you did it, you did, and yeah maybe my business won’t grow as much and so warmer people
don't see me taking credit for everything but, it can’t be about me, it can’t be because if it is, am
dead. Because if I start to believe that, I get elevated and we have seen lots of people who start
off with great intentions of mentoring and supporting and guiding human beings and end up
getting very kind of they start to become the whole saying that I and they start to fundamentally
believe the roles in I and they get loss and as a really sad place to be and I think once you learn
there, it’s over, so that would probably be the biggest fear that I have in life.
ARI
The last question that I always like to ask on the interviews is what are your top three piece of
advice for being more effective and that you can be whatever you wanted to mean for you, but as
far as people being more effective in their lives, what’s your top three?
PHILIP
I would say stop goal setting and obsessing about stuff that you want in the future and because I
think goal setting is not anti-goal setting in its entirety and but I think we are so obsessed with
creating milestones and things that we want and planning and that we are spending so much time
in the future that we can be present for ourselves and our children and anybody else for that
matter and I think we have stopped trusting fluency and flow in life and spontaneity and
adventure and courage and curiosity and we have replaced it with Google and goal setting and
vision boards and all these things that is obsessive about the future and therefore it prevents us
from living in the now and number two as I would been in no particular order and I haven’t
thought this out, so I will probably change this an hour from now, but I will give it what what's
coming to me straightaway and number two is I would stop your life, stop, like just stop, and I
would really reflect upon the life that you have lived, the things you've been through in life and
be open to some of the negative things to come up and be able to deal with them so they don't
control you and also some of the magic that you been true in your life that maybe you have
forgotten or didn't think it was significant because it leaves clues about what the future should

10. hold and that's what I've done I'm actually doing the work now that has been inspired by
elements of my life 10 or 20 years ago and if I didn’t stop and do them and then I probably
wouldn't be running the retreats and the experiences that I run now for people and the other the
two things that definitely comes to mind and a number three and is just perfuse to settle in life,
refuse to settle for work that you're telling yourself in your head is great work, that you are living
in the right city and make all the rationale, all the reasons make sense in your head and stop
doing that shit, stop telling yourself, justifying why you stay in a job and justifying why you stay
in a city, justifying why you are staying a relationship, when you know in your heart and soul it's
not for you and you can rationalize at the cows come home, but is going to come back and haunt
your 10, 15, 20 years from now if you keep ignoring the whispering in your soul that's been there
forever and what I'm talking about is intuition, that intuition voice, that's whispering and
sometimes it's actually been turned off and people have actually turned it off and start allowing
yourself to feel and get out of your head and feel more and your intuition will never ever serve
you wrong, it will never bring you in the wrong direction, it will never bring into the wrong
relationship, it will never bring you in the wrong business to do, but how many times have you
not listen to it to come back and haunt you. So I'm not sure if that makes sense and to you or
your listeners but that is coming to me straightaway.
ARI
That makes a total sense and I believe that so all three of those make great sense to me, you are
the only person or other person I've ever had talk about or talk to who doesn't believe in goal
setting really which is I feel that way too, I think that basically my theory about goal setting is
that if you're improving yourself in every way possible or some way possible every day then
you're going to hit whatever goal you thought you were going towards anyway.
PHILIP
Absolutely.
ARI
And then also intuition I mean you are right, I don’t mean you are wrong, Philip this has really
been wonderful it's so nice to talk to you again and thank you for taking the time and sharing that
with me and the audience. So where is the best place for people to learn more about you?
PHILIP
Just go to philipmckernan.com.
ARI
Great we are going to have links in this and everything.

11. PHILIP
Thank you I appreciate that, the new website is going up in the next couple of days so it’s a little
bit busy at the moment I think anyway, but then the next few days, people can look and see what
they like.
ARI
Wonderful. Thank you so much.