In this blog post I have tried to map out the aspects of my classroom conversations that led to actual Chinese learning. This process has helped me understand better both how and why class conversations allow language learning opportunities to emerge and how they can be exploited. This exercise has also given me space to reflect on how I can converse better in lessons – not just as a learner, but also as a teacher.

1. What makes a conversation pedagogical?
Reflecting upon my recent one-to-one Chinese lessons in southern China, I felt that a dialogic
approach (essentially Dogme) worked so well because the conversations with the teacher were
much more than a dialogue that just happened to result in language learning. Rather, the class
conversations had certain attributes that made them good vehicles for language learning.
Talking about Chinese soymilk
During my lessons I brought objects, photos, texts, audio and video into class to share with my
teacher and discuss:
• Objects: drinks I had bought at the shop
• Texts: photos of menus or signs I had seen the previous day
• Pictures and video: photos and videos of things I had seen, done or eaten
• Audio: recordings of conversations I had had – perhaps when buying something
In one lesson I brought in a soy-drink and we talked about what it was, how much it cost, where I
got it, whether I liked it (and whether my teacher liked it), what the ingredients were, how it was
made, etc. It turned out that my teacher often made soymilk at home for breakfast in a soymilk
maker (I had no idea they even existed), which lead me to visit a domestic appliances store after
class and inquire about the machines. In fact I recorded the conversation with my MP3 player
and played it back in a subsequent lesson, which meant that the soymilk conversation was
revisited in a natural way the next day.
These conversations paused from time to time to allow me to write down new words and phrases,
discuss grammatical issues or drill my pronunciation. The discussions were slow – in part,
because I cannot speak Chinese quickly, but also because there were natural pauses that
allowed us to think of new questions to take the conversation forward. The presence of objects
such as a soymilk drink seemed to help us refocus on the conversation’s theme after breaks from
the topic to consider any new language. When the conversation dried up, I would find a photo I
had taken (of a menu, a sign or something I had found interesting when walking around Kunming)
and start a new topic.

2. These conversations were interesting because, for example, both my teacher and I like
soymilk. And the lessons improved my Chinese because they helped me in an immediate and
practical way to do things (such as buy soymilk) more easily. But they also improved my general
conversational skills with respect to food/drink and other everyday subjects. And, of course, it
also gave opportunities to learn and practice more general phrases such as “I like ___”; “Do you
like ___?”; “I think that… “; “I don’t know, but… “
These lessons weren’t just practical conversations for everyday life in China, – they also included
discussions about Chinese grammar – usually when I couldn’t use a structure from English
because it has no direct equivalent in Chinese. And they also included talk about why I wanted to
learn in through conversation and what I thought was working well or not so well about the
lessons.
Layers of learning
There seems to have been two clear levels of learning in the lessons – language learning and
meta-cognitive skills.
• Language learning is essentially the words and grammar that we absorb and produce
• Meta-cognitive skills is where learners gain awareness of their language learning, their
learning goals and the strategies they employ
The importance of conversation
Yet the class’s conversation had not only these two layers, but a third layer: the topic of the
conversation. And the topic itself was important; I found it interesting, for example, to talk about
soymilk, as it was highly relevant to my life at that moment. It also helped me to learn some
Chinese that helped me out of class – when buying soymilk or asking at a soymilk stand how they
made the drink.
This conversation led to new phrases and structures, so there was a natural introduction of
grammar, as and when I needed it. The dialogic approach had another advantage: it led to
greater connection with my conversation partner (teacher) – as perhaps all good conversation
should; we were able to get to know each other in an easy and comfortable way through topics
such as what we like to eat.
It strikes me that this conversation-based learning gave the usual benefits of dialogue with others
(interesting and engaging social time that leads to better understanding between me and my
teacher); and it also was a vehicle that naturally helped the lessons focus on the Chinese I
needed at the time – both lexis and form.
Pedagogical Conversation Skills
So what exactly is it about the conversations about soymilk and other subjects from my life in
Kunming that made them not just enjoyable, but also pedagogically beneficial? And more
generally, what makes a conversation pedagogical?
• Shared awareness of the conversation’s layers: teachers and students need to be on
the same page as to what the conversation should achieve and how it will do so. There
needs to be a common sense that the different layers (topic, language learning, meta-
cognitive skills) exist and that each has its role to play. I did this in China by initially
explaining to my teacher what I wanted to do, agreeing on it and then doing it; we then
talked about it several times throughout the lessons to make sure the conversations were
going well for both of us.
• Real conversations: the conversations need to be genuine, free dialogue that each
participant can engage in and help to shape. Role-play and reading aloud have their
uses, but they should not be confused with dialogue that has its own life. Within a good
conversation there is genuine interest in what others say and the employment of
conversation skills (listening, asking, and sharing), which leads to greater understanding
and connection. I introduced everyday subjects through objects, pictures etc and then

3. asked questions so that there was a genuine dialogue rather than simple monologues
from me.
• Conversation provides continuity: although dialogue provides great conversation
practice, a pedagogical conversation also leads to the emergence of language learning
opportunities. Yet interruptions to explore the language being used create a break in the
continuity of the conversation (and therefore the lesson). To keep the conversation alive
there needs to be a way to easily return to the conversation topic after a foray into a point
of lexis or form. The objects and photos served as an anchor to remind of the topic again.
• Space and time for emergence: emergence is not necessarily a fast process and if the
conversation rushes ahead, language learning could become sidelined. A slower, more
reflective class will allow emergence to happen. I speak Chinese slowly (and my teacher
was just incredibly patient!), so this happened naturally. But even so, there were pauses
that allowed us to choose what to do next (continue the conversation, turn to a point of
language or change the topic).
The below chart takes these same issues and offers some suggestions of how pedagogical
dialogue can be achieved in class…
Conversation’s pedagogical attributes Tools to achieve attributes
Shared awareness of the conversation’s layers Class discussion about the different layers and
how much time participants want to spend on
each. Class dialogue on using a Dogme
approach to language learning.
Real conversations Inclusive method to decide lesson topics. Shared
sense of what a good conversation is (eg
achieving connection through sharing) and what
good conversation skills are (eg value of listening
and asking questions).
Conversation provides continuity Objects, photos, texts can provide a reference
point that helps participants return to the
conversation topic. Questions can be asked
(about the object, photo etc) to take the discussion
in a new direction.
Space and time for emergence Slow the conversation down and allow pauses so
that participants can reflect upon the subject
matter, the language used or even the broader
questions of whether the conversation is working
for them.
From learner to teacher
In this blog post I have tried to map out the aspects of my classroom conversations that led to
actual Chinese learning. This process has helped me understand better both how and why class
conversations allow language learning opportunities to emerge and how they can be
exploited. This exercise has also given me space to reflect on how I can converse better in
lessons – not just as a learner, but also as a teacher.
http://www.avatarlanguages.com/blog/pedagogical-conversation/