SlideShare uma empresa Scribd logo
1 de 46
Meaningful Homework
Flipped, Interactive, Autograded
Why and How Homework?
Why give it?
How do we design it?
How do we make it something they want to do?
http://goo.gl/vgHsA
Typical Beliefs about
Homework
Serves to extend learning beyond classroom
Homework teaches responsibility (or obedience?)
Lots of homework is consistent with rigorous program
Good teachers give HW and good students do it
What the Research Says?
Amount of time spent on homework is positively
correlated to achievement
Homework appears to be more effective for older
students (15+)
As more variables are controlled for, + correlation is
diminished
There appears to be an optimum amount of HW at
each grade level – 10min/year
Tenets of LearningQuality teaching matters
Skills require practice
Time on task matters (we might need to redefine the tasks )
Quality of task is as important as time
Learning is individual
Children differ in readiness and developmental level
Children differ in learning styles (myth)
Children differ in motivation, persistence, and organizational skills (executive
function)
Frustration is detrimental to motivation and desire to learn
Homework that is not completed does not help learning
• Children differ in motivation, persistence, and
organizational skills (executive function)
• Frustration is detrimental to motivation and desire
to learn
What about Grading?
Once the number is
attached the learning
stops
Grade should reflect
learning not behavior
We must
ask:
Why don’t they do their
homework?
What is the effect on future
learning?
How do I meet the needs of
individual learners?
THERE AREN’T EASY
ANSWERS!
Value Added
HW
Needs to be done to be
successful
Doesn’t cause frustration
Enhances the classroom
experience
Meets each student where they
are
Has a student Hook
No Option to Take a Zero –
Must Be Done
Homework Helpers
Technology Enhanced Homework
Consider HW as Formative Assessment
Feedback over Grading
Formative
•‘… often means no more than that the
assessment is carried out frequently
and is planned at the same time as
teaching.’ (Black and Wiliam, 1999)
•‘… provides feedback which leads to
students recognizing the (learning)
gap and closing it … it is forward
looking …’ (Harlen, 1998)
•‘ … includes both feedback and self-
monitoring.’ (Sadler, 1989)
•‘… is used essentially to feed back
into the teaching and learning
process.’ (Tunstall and Gipps, 1996)
Summative
•‘…assessment (that) has increasingly
been used to sum up learning…’(Black
and Wiliam, 1999)
•‘… looks at past achievements … adds
procedures or tests to existing work ...
involves only marking and feedback
grades to student … is separated from
teaching … is carried out at intervals
when achievement has to be
summarized and reported.’ (Harlen,
1998)
Black and Wiliam
•Frequent short tests are better than infrequent long
ones.
•New learning should be tested within about a week of
first exposure.
•Be mindful of the quality of test items and work with
other teachers and outside sources to collect good ones.
•Comments alone have more impact on student
achievement than comments and grades or grades
only.
For more: http://bit.ly/dmYUHW
AutoGraded
Good for Drill and Practice
LMS Quiz Package
Quia
WebAssign
Schoology
Quia
http://www.quia.com
WebAssign
Webassign.net
Active Recall
• Flash Cards
• Smart Activities in
Smart Notebook
Flashcards
Leitner Scale
http://flashcarddb.com/leitner
Brainscape
Spaced
Repetition
Active Recall
Metacognitiv
e reflection
Flashcard Options
Quizlet StudyBlue
Making HW Interactive
Discussion, Forums, Multimedia
LMS Options
Classroom Collaborize
Classroom Salon/Diigo
Collaborative MindMap (Mindomo)
Voxopop
Google Docs (Peer Review)
Classroom Collaborize
• Advanced Forums
Classroom Salon
Mindmaps/Graphic Organizers
Chunking and Patterns
Voxopop
• Audio HW
Google Docs- Comments
Annotation/Notetaking
Classroom Salon
Video Notes
Classroom Salon -Annotation
Video Notes
Research
Noodle Tools
Sweet Search
TeachEm
NoodleTools
Sweet Search
Teachem.com
http://www.teachem.com/learn/3852/quarks-standard-model-of-
particle-physics
The Classroom
Flipped
Attributes
• Provide content delivery- lectures,
notes, things students usually sit and
get- for homework
• Use class time for collaborative work
and challenge problems
• Teacher centered at home  Student
centered at school
History
• Jonathan Bergmann and Aaron Smith
– Pre-vodcasting
– Flipped Classroom
• Karl Fisch and Daniel Pink
Re-Purpose Existing Content
CrashCourse Videos
One Minute Physics
Veritasium
delicious.com/ehelfant/videos
Flipped
Tools
Create Content
Tools
• Screenr
• Sophia
• Ted EDx
• Slideshare
• Knovio
• YouTube Editor
Gamification
Important Concepts
Appropriate Level
Appropriate Challenge
Rewards (more challenge)
Constant Feedback
Repitition
Some Options
Raptivity
Immersive Worlds
(Jibe, Kitely)
Aris Games
SCVNGR
Differentiating HW
Homework tasks that
are too difficult are a
major demotivator
(Tomlinson 2003,
Vatterott 2003)
Diigo
Graphic Organizers-I
Language- YouTube
Editor
LAMS
Note:Boring is bad too-
A move to metacognition
Self Assessment
•Portfolios
•Online Journals/Learning Blogs
•Google Forms – Daily Update
•Key Idea
•What you struggled with
•Question you still have or skill
you need to work on

Mais conteúdo relacionado

Mais procurados

Early Childhood Education Flipped Learning
Early Childhood Education Flipped LearningEarly Childhood Education Flipped Learning
Early Childhood Education Flipped Learning
Tracey Bryan
 
Distance education with moodle day 2 nov 4 new
Distance education with moodle day 2 nov 4 newDistance education with moodle day 2 nov 4 new
Distance education with moodle day 2 nov 4 new
joancoy1
 
Rethinking Homework
Rethinking HomeworkRethinking Homework
Rethinking Homework
ehelfant
 
Project-Based Learning
Project-Based LearningProject-Based Learning
Project-Based Learning
Sue Sheffer
 
Briarwood Presentation 2
Briarwood Presentation 2Briarwood Presentation 2
Briarwood Presentation 2
josteen
 
Re Thinking Assessment
Re Thinking AssessmentRe Thinking Assessment
Re Thinking Assessment
ehelfant
 

Mais procurados (20)

The Maker as a Reflective Practitioner
The Maker as a Reflective Practitioner The Maker as a Reflective Practitioner
The Maker as a Reflective Practitioner
 
Early Childhood Education Flipped Learning
Early Childhood Education Flipped LearningEarly Childhood Education Flipped Learning
Early Childhood Education Flipped Learning
 
Engaged learning
Engaged learningEngaged learning
Engaged learning
 
Flipped instruction pd 10 9-14 short v2
Flipped instruction pd 10 9-14 short v2Flipped instruction pd 10 9-14 short v2
Flipped instruction pd 10 9-14 short v2
 
Distance education with moodle day 2 nov 4 new
Distance education with moodle day 2 nov 4 newDistance education with moodle day 2 nov 4 new
Distance education with moodle day 2 nov 4 new
 
Blended redesign workshop 10 1-15
Blended redesign workshop 10 1-15Blended redesign workshop 10 1-15
Blended redesign workshop 10 1-15
 
Rethinking Homework
Rethinking HomeworkRethinking Homework
Rethinking Homework
 
PLU: Baby Steps to Blended Learning
PLU: Baby Steps to Blended LearningPLU: Baby Steps to Blended Learning
PLU: Baby Steps to Blended Learning
 
Pbl a menu of ideas
Pbl  a menu of ideasPbl  a menu of ideas
Pbl a menu of ideas
 
Project-Based Learning
Project-Based LearningProject-Based Learning
Project-Based Learning
 
Gsoe presentation 100915
Gsoe presentation 100915Gsoe presentation 100915
Gsoe presentation 100915
 
PBL
PBLPBL
PBL
 
Planning Structured Activities - Project-Based Learning, Service Learning, an...
Planning Structured Activities - Project-Based Learning, Service Learning, an...Planning Structured Activities - Project-Based Learning, Service Learning, an...
Planning Structured Activities - Project-Based Learning, Service Learning, an...
 
Briarwood Presentation 2
Briarwood Presentation 2Briarwood Presentation 2
Briarwood Presentation 2
 
Scenario Based Learning Workshop
Scenario Based Learning WorkshopScenario Based Learning Workshop
Scenario Based Learning Workshop
 
Curriculum21 3&4
Curriculum21 3&4Curriculum21 3&4
Curriculum21 3&4
 
Moving from Presentations to Presentations of Learning
Moving from Presentations to Presentations of LearningMoving from Presentations to Presentations of Learning
Moving from Presentations to Presentations of Learning
 
The Flipped Classroom: Getting Started
The Flipped Classroom: Getting StartedThe Flipped Classroom: Getting Started
The Flipped Classroom: Getting Started
 
Bloggingnipmuc
BloggingnipmucBloggingnipmuc
Bloggingnipmuc
 
Re Thinking Assessment
Re Thinking AssessmentRe Thinking Assessment
Re Thinking Assessment
 

Destaque (7)

Frank Addante Startonomics LA
Frank Addante Startonomics LAFrank Addante Startonomics LA
Frank Addante Startonomics LA
 
Nation building in iraq
Nation building in iraqNation building in iraq
Nation building in iraq
 
Searching for Users: SEO as an Engine for Customer Acquisition (Stephan Spenc...
Searching for Users: SEO as an Engine for Customer Acquisition (Stephan Spenc...Searching for Users: SEO as an Engine for Customer Acquisition (Stephan Spenc...
Searching for Users: SEO as an Engine for Customer Acquisition (Stephan Spenc...
 
Tpack and pd
Tpack and pdTpack and pd
Tpack and pd
 
Dy know monitor
Dy know monitorDy know monitor
Dy know monitor
 
Lakeview the flipped classroom
Lakeview the flipped classroomLakeview the flipped classroom
Lakeview the flipped classroom
 
Relationship between intrinsic motivation and goal orientation among college ...
Relationship between intrinsic motivation and goal orientation among college ...Relationship between intrinsic motivation and goal orientation among college ...
Relationship between intrinsic motivation and goal orientation among college ...
 

Semelhante a St andrew's meaningful hw homework

Rethinking Homework (Lausanne)
Rethinking Homework (Lausanne)Rethinking Homework (Lausanne)
Rethinking Homework (Lausanne)
ehelfant
 
micds pbl 2011
micds pbl 2011micds pbl 2011
micds pbl 2011
ehelfant
 
Jk 2nd round student inquiry
Jk 2nd round   student inquiryJk 2nd round   student inquiry
Jk 2nd round student inquiry
jacquiinnes
 
Hancock Flipping the Switch
Hancock Flipping the SwitchHancock Flipping the Switch
Hancock Flipping the Switch
COHERE2012
 
Pbl assessment
Pbl assessmentPbl assessment
Pbl assessment
ehelfant
 
Pbl assessment
Pbl assessmentPbl assessment
Pbl assessment
ehelfant
 

Semelhante a St andrew's meaningful hw homework (20)

Rethinking Homework (Lausanne)
Rethinking Homework (Lausanne)Rethinking Homework (Lausanne)
Rethinking Homework (Lausanne)
 
RVHS TeachMeet 10 February 2015
RVHS TeachMeet 10 February 2015RVHS TeachMeet 10 February 2015
RVHS TeachMeet 10 February 2015
 
MindTap ThinkNation Webinar Series: Assessing Learning in Higher Education
MindTap ThinkNation Webinar Series: Assessing Learning in Higher EducationMindTap ThinkNation Webinar Series: Assessing Learning in Higher Education
MindTap ThinkNation Webinar Series: Assessing Learning in Higher Education
 
micds pbl 2011
micds pbl 2011micds pbl 2011
micds pbl 2011
 
Real-time Assessment: A Guide for Emergency Remote Teaching
Real-time Assessment: A Guide for Emergency Remote TeachingReal-time Assessment: A Guide for Emergency Remote Teaching
Real-time Assessment: A Guide for Emergency Remote Teaching
 
Jk 2nd round student inquiry
Jk 2nd round   student inquiryJk 2nd round   student inquiry
Jk 2nd round student inquiry
 
The Mindful Instruction Librarian and the "One-Shot"
The Mindful Instruction Librarian and the "One-Shot"The Mindful Instruction Librarian and the "One-Shot"
The Mindful Instruction Librarian and the "One-Shot"
 
Online assessment
Online assessmentOnline assessment
Online assessment
 
Hancock Flipping the Switch
Hancock Flipping the SwitchHancock Flipping the Switch
Hancock Flipping the Switch
 
Pbl assessment
Pbl assessmentPbl assessment
Pbl assessment
 
Jace Hargis Designing Online Teaching
Jace Hargis Designing Online TeachingJace Hargis Designing Online Teaching
Jace Hargis Designing Online Teaching
 
Pbl assessment
Pbl assessmentPbl assessment
Pbl assessment
 
Teaching & Learning Style Tools (Slideshare).pptx
Teaching & Learning Style Tools (Slideshare).pptxTeaching & Learning Style Tools (Slideshare).pptx
Teaching & Learning Style Tools (Slideshare).pptx
 
AHDS Conference November 2014 - Keynote by Alistair Smith
AHDS Conference November 2014 - Keynote by Alistair SmithAHDS Conference November 2014 - Keynote by Alistair Smith
AHDS Conference November 2014 - Keynote by Alistair Smith
 
New Pedagogies DCVI
New Pedagogies DCVINew Pedagogies DCVI
New Pedagogies DCVI
 
Cluster workshop
Cluster workshopCluster workshop
Cluster workshop
 
Understanding by Design in English Language Teaching
Understanding by Design in English Language Teaching Understanding by Design in English Language Teaching
Understanding by Design in English Language Teaching
 
Technology and the 21 century esl classroom. March 2 3.2016
Technology and the 21 century esl classroom. March 2 3.2016Technology and the 21 century esl classroom. March 2 3.2016
Technology and the 21 century esl classroom. March 2 3.2016
 
Learning Forward Presentation
Learning Forward PresentationLearning Forward Presentation
Learning Forward Presentation
 
Assessment in Blended Learning
Assessment in Blended LearningAssessment in Blended Learning
Assessment in Blended Learning
 

Mais de ehelfant

Student survey results 2016-2017 ap psychology t1
Student survey results   2016-2017 ap psychology t1Student survey results   2016-2017 ap psychology t1
Student survey results 2016-2017 ap psychology t1
ehelfant
 
Multimedia madness
Multimedia  madnessMultimedia  madness
Multimedia madness
ehelfant
 
Tpackpontiac
TpackpontiacTpackpontiac
Tpackpontiac
ehelfant
 
Pontiac brain dyknow1
Pontiac brain dyknow1Pontiac brain dyknow1
Pontiac brain dyknow1
ehelfant
 
Pontiac differentiation
Pontiac differentiationPontiac differentiation
Pontiac differentiation
ehelfant
 
Lakeview brain
Lakeview brainLakeview brain
Lakeview brain
ehelfant
 
Reflective practice
Reflective practiceReflective practice
Reflective practice
ehelfant
 
Lakeview tpack
Lakeview tpackLakeview tpack
Lakeview tpack
ehelfant
 
Lakeview pbl
Lakeview pblLakeview pbl
Lakeview pbl
ehelfant
 
Lakeview differentiation
Lakeview differentiationLakeview differentiation
Lakeview differentiation
ehelfant
 
Lakeview pbl
Lakeview pblLakeview pbl
Lakeview pbl
ehelfant
 
Research lausanne2011
Research lausanne2011Research lausanne2011
Research lausanne2011
ehelfant
 
Thinking lausanne
Thinking lausanneThinking lausanne
Thinking lausanne
ehelfant
 
Thinking lausanne
Thinking lausanneThinking lausanne
Thinking lausanne
ehelfant
 
Research lausanne2011
Research lausanne2011Research lausanne2011
Research lausanne2011
ehelfant
 
Projects lausanne
Projects lausanneProjects lausanne
Projects lausanne
ehelfant
 
1 to-1 across disciplines-final
1 to-1 across disciplines-final1 to-1 across disciplines-final
1 to-1 across disciplines-final
ehelfant
 
Games, ar, vr and education
Games, ar, vr and educationGames, ar, vr and education
Games, ar, vr and education
ehelfant
 
Tpack lausanne
Tpack lausanneTpack lausanne
Tpack lausanne
ehelfant
 
Mapping the project
Mapping the projectMapping the project
Mapping the project
ehelfant
 

Mais de ehelfant (20)

Student survey results 2016-2017 ap psychology t1
Student survey results   2016-2017 ap psychology t1Student survey results   2016-2017 ap psychology t1
Student survey results 2016-2017 ap psychology t1
 
Multimedia madness
Multimedia  madnessMultimedia  madness
Multimedia madness
 
Tpackpontiac
TpackpontiacTpackpontiac
Tpackpontiac
 
Pontiac brain dyknow1
Pontiac brain dyknow1Pontiac brain dyknow1
Pontiac brain dyknow1
 
Pontiac differentiation
Pontiac differentiationPontiac differentiation
Pontiac differentiation
 
Lakeview brain
Lakeview brainLakeview brain
Lakeview brain
 
Reflective practice
Reflective practiceReflective practice
Reflective practice
 
Lakeview tpack
Lakeview tpackLakeview tpack
Lakeview tpack
 
Lakeview pbl
Lakeview pblLakeview pbl
Lakeview pbl
 
Lakeview differentiation
Lakeview differentiationLakeview differentiation
Lakeview differentiation
 
Lakeview pbl
Lakeview pblLakeview pbl
Lakeview pbl
 
Research lausanne2011
Research lausanne2011Research lausanne2011
Research lausanne2011
 
Thinking lausanne
Thinking lausanneThinking lausanne
Thinking lausanne
 
Thinking lausanne
Thinking lausanneThinking lausanne
Thinking lausanne
 
Research lausanne2011
Research lausanne2011Research lausanne2011
Research lausanne2011
 
Projects lausanne
Projects lausanneProjects lausanne
Projects lausanne
 
1 to-1 across disciplines-final
1 to-1 across disciplines-final1 to-1 across disciplines-final
1 to-1 across disciplines-final
 
Games, ar, vr and education
Games, ar, vr and educationGames, ar, vr and education
Games, ar, vr and education
 
Tpack lausanne
Tpack lausanneTpack lausanne
Tpack lausanne
 
Mapping the project
Mapping the projectMapping the project
Mapping the project
 

Último

Russian Escort Service in Delhi 11k Hotel Foreigner Russian Call Girls in Delhi
Russian Escort Service in Delhi 11k Hotel Foreigner Russian Call Girls in DelhiRussian Escort Service in Delhi 11k Hotel Foreigner Russian Call Girls in Delhi
Russian Escort Service in Delhi 11k Hotel Foreigner Russian Call Girls in Delhi
kauryashika82
 
Seal of Good Local Governance (SGLG) 2024Final.pptx
Seal of Good Local Governance (SGLG) 2024Final.pptxSeal of Good Local Governance (SGLG) 2024Final.pptx
Seal of Good Local Governance (SGLG) 2024Final.pptx
negromaestrong
 
The basics of sentences session 2pptx copy.pptx
The basics of sentences session 2pptx copy.pptxThe basics of sentences session 2pptx copy.pptx
The basics of sentences session 2pptx copy.pptx
heathfieldcps1
 

Último (20)

Measures of Central Tendency: Mean, Median and Mode
Measures of Central Tendency: Mean, Median and ModeMeasures of Central Tendency: Mean, Median and Mode
Measures of Central Tendency: Mean, Median and Mode
 
Ecological Succession. ( ECOSYSTEM, B. Pharmacy, 1st Year, Sem-II, Environmen...
Ecological Succession. ( ECOSYSTEM, B. Pharmacy, 1st Year, Sem-II, Environmen...Ecological Succession. ( ECOSYSTEM, B. Pharmacy, 1st Year, Sem-II, Environmen...
Ecological Succession. ( ECOSYSTEM, B. Pharmacy, 1st Year, Sem-II, Environmen...
 
Unit-IV- Pharma. Marketing Channels.pptx
Unit-IV- Pharma. Marketing Channels.pptxUnit-IV- Pharma. Marketing Channels.pptx
Unit-IV- Pharma. Marketing Channels.pptx
 
Russian Escort Service in Delhi 11k Hotel Foreigner Russian Call Girls in Delhi
Russian Escort Service in Delhi 11k Hotel Foreigner Russian Call Girls in DelhiRussian Escort Service in Delhi 11k Hotel Foreigner Russian Call Girls in Delhi
Russian Escort Service in Delhi 11k Hotel Foreigner Russian Call Girls in Delhi
 
Seal of Good Local Governance (SGLG) 2024Final.pptx
Seal of Good Local Governance (SGLG) 2024Final.pptxSeal of Good Local Governance (SGLG) 2024Final.pptx
Seal of Good Local Governance (SGLG) 2024Final.pptx
 
SOCIAL AND HISTORICAL CONTEXT - LFTVD.pptx
SOCIAL AND HISTORICAL CONTEXT - LFTVD.pptxSOCIAL AND HISTORICAL CONTEXT - LFTVD.pptx
SOCIAL AND HISTORICAL CONTEXT - LFTVD.pptx
 
psychiatric nursing HISTORY COLLECTION .docx
psychiatric  nursing HISTORY  COLLECTION  .docxpsychiatric  nursing HISTORY  COLLECTION  .docx
psychiatric nursing HISTORY COLLECTION .docx
 
Class 11th Physics NEET formula sheet pdf
Class 11th Physics NEET formula sheet pdfClass 11th Physics NEET formula sheet pdf
Class 11th Physics NEET formula sheet pdf
 
Web & Social Media Analytics Previous Year Question Paper.pdf
Web & Social Media Analytics Previous Year Question Paper.pdfWeb & Social Media Analytics Previous Year Question Paper.pdf
Web & Social Media Analytics Previous Year Question Paper.pdf
 
microwave assisted reaction. General introduction
microwave assisted reaction. General introductionmicrowave assisted reaction. General introduction
microwave assisted reaction. General introduction
 
Accessible design: Minimum effort, maximum impact
Accessible design: Minimum effort, maximum impactAccessible design: Minimum effort, maximum impact
Accessible design: Minimum effort, maximum impact
 
Holdier Curriculum Vitae (April 2024).pdf
Holdier Curriculum Vitae (April 2024).pdfHoldier Curriculum Vitae (April 2024).pdf
Holdier Curriculum Vitae (April 2024).pdf
 
The basics of sentences session 2pptx copy.pptx
The basics of sentences session 2pptx copy.pptxThe basics of sentences session 2pptx copy.pptx
The basics of sentences session 2pptx copy.pptx
 
Basic Civil Engineering first year Notes- Chapter 4 Building.pptx
Basic Civil Engineering first year Notes- Chapter 4 Building.pptxBasic Civil Engineering first year Notes- Chapter 4 Building.pptx
Basic Civil Engineering first year Notes- Chapter 4 Building.pptx
 
Mattingly "AI & Prompt Design: The Basics of Prompt Design"
Mattingly "AI & Prompt Design: The Basics of Prompt Design"Mattingly "AI & Prompt Design: The Basics of Prompt Design"
Mattingly "AI & Prompt Design: The Basics of Prompt Design"
 
Mixin Classes in Odoo 17 How to Extend Models Using Mixin Classes
Mixin Classes in Odoo 17  How to Extend Models Using Mixin ClassesMixin Classes in Odoo 17  How to Extend Models Using Mixin Classes
Mixin Classes in Odoo 17 How to Extend Models Using Mixin Classes
 
SECOND SEMESTER TOPIC COVERAGE SY 2023-2024 Trends, Networks, and Critical Th...
SECOND SEMESTER TOPIC COVERAGE SY 2023-2024 Trends, Networks, and Critical Th...SECOND SEMESTER TOPIC COVERAGE SY 2023-2024 Trends, Networks, and Critical Th...
SECOND SEMESTER TOPIC COVERAGE SY 2023-2024 Trends, Networks, and Critical Th...
 
This PowerPoint helps students to consider the concept of infinity.
This PowerPoint helps students to consider the concept of infinity.This PowerPoint helps students to consider the concept of infinity.
This PowerPoint helps students to consider the concept of infinity.
 
Mehran University Newsletter Vol-X, Issue-I, 2024
Mehran University Newsletter Vol-X, Issue-I, 2024Mehran University Newsletter Vol-X, Issue-I, 2024
Mehran University Newsletter Vol-X, Issue-I, 2024
 
Explore beautiful and ugly buildings. Mathematics helps us create beautiful d...
Explore beautiful and ugly buildings. Mathematics helps us create beautiful d...Explore beautiful and ugly buildings. Mathematics helps us create beautiful d...
Explore beautiful and ugly buildings. Mathematics helps us create beautiful d...
 

St andrew's meaningful hw homework

Notas do Editor

  1. Formative Assessment means you will modify your instruction so seeing it early is helpful
  2. Drill and Pracitce- LM
  3. Converse also tru- boring is bad too-